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I am nearly done with a course about using OOP in C++ and all the programs we wrote in that course were console applications . I also finished a university course in C programming so I think I have solid C programming basics and now is the time to make a big step towards GUI .
I did a lot of googling and each time I read more pages I get more confused , I learned that there were too famous options in the past which are WinAPI and MFC. I tried to look into the WinAPI but It seems pretty tough and needs a lot of time so I asked my instructor's advice and he told me that If I wanna write GUI programs I would better learn C# or Java rather than using C++ which is faster but better designed for low level programming applications like drivers and so . So I searched the web to find if C++ is still used in writing nowadays applications and to my surprise Firefox, Google Chrome, Notepad++ and many other GUI applications on sourceforge.net are written in C++ in contradiction with my instructor's advice.
Also I learned that you can use QT or GTK libraries to build GUI applications in C++ but I have no idea ow to do that or if that is true.
So My question is what are the nowadays best available options to write GUI programs efficiently no matter how steep is the learning curve. I googled for C++ GUI options because It think it will be faster than Java or C# apps, If anyone has a different opinion state it please.
First of all, if you want to lean to write platform independent GUI then C# is no go.
When you write GUI in C++ there is a question of toolkit, Qt and GTKmm provide you very solid cross platform toolkits. While Qt has more "native" look and feel on Windows than GTKmm, Java Swing allows you to write very good GUI as well but it would be heavier and slower then one written with Qt or GTKmm.
Now... C#/WPF same issues as Java GUI - slower then native, but also it also locks you on one platform only.
My personal advice start from Qt.
If you are new to GUI programming C#/WinForms will be best for you. It rather simple, have a great community around it, have a lot of ready-to-use controls.. and best documentation ever - MSDN.
Sure, if you are looking for deep knowledge of "how things works" you then have to understand Win32 GUI. So, you can always back to C++/MFC for that. I would not suggest any other C++ libraries (as Qt), not because they are bad, but because they require good experience to start up.
My suggestion is start with WinForms, undestand the basic and learn to create simple application. As soon as you are master in that, go deeper :)
Try Juce.
The fastest way is to use C# and WPF. It's fast and simple for small applications but can be pretty complex in my opinion and there is a lot to learn. At least you are future proof, Microsoft is pushing WPF themselves finally. (Visual Studio uses it, and there will be a lot more versions to come)
The only real downside is, that you will only be able to run the application in Windows.
If you really want the "low level" access, there a lot of interop options with C++ code.
It depends on what kind of GUI application you want to write. If you want to write a shrink-wrapped app like MS Word or Firefox, then C++ is the way to go, because the market demands the last little bit of performance, with minimal dependencies. OTOH, if you want to write (for example) an interface to your company's database, the performance of the GUI is normally not important, but delivering something quickly and cheaply is, so you should use something more RAD, like C#.
Qt is very good. People say WTL is also nice, but I didn't used it.
Java and GUI does not fit very well in my head. There are some native to Java GUI libraries (AWT, Swing) but they are slow and don't provide interface native to platform it runs on. There is also SWT, which is used by Eclipse, but haven't seen any app besides Eclipse using it.
If GUI needs are simple I'd stick to C#: you drop some controls on your form, write some logics behind it and you are ready to go. If you need some really complex GUI then I don't think there would be a huge difference in development time between different languages.
C++ is good for speed (HTML rendering tools like chrome / firefox or image editors like photoshop) and for performing "feats" you might not otherwise be able to do on other platforms.
But it is more painful to use and there is much more of a luearning curve on any of the C++ based UI libraries than you would care to learn.
Since you do not seem to require any of this, as is clear from your question, your default choice should be C# or Java or Web based like your tutor advised.
C++ never dies, so that learning it is not a wrong decision. However, it is quite difficult to write GUI applications using C++ during early days. Therefore, I suggest you to use C# t write some GUI applications before switching back to C++.
Not exactly an answer to your question, but if you are still in learning and not in the production line, try learning Win API. Actually, I am surprised nobody told you that.
You see, all other frameworks /API /SDKs are actually just wrappers around this API, and chances are that whenever you are asked to do something non-standard in your GUI you will not find a solution within your framework and will need to dig down to Win API anyway.
Yes, it is Windows only API, still knowing what is actually going on behind the scene may be very handy at times.
Just my 2 cents.
If you decide for C++, have a look at wxwidgets - this way you don't limit yourself to just one operating system (windows in this case with MFC). Also QT should be good, but I've never tried them (I do not have much experience with wxwidgets either, but the few times I had to do something with them, they worked pretty well).
If you don't need high performance in the gui, have a look at scripting languages - Python has a default library that works well (tkinter) and also binding to wxwidgets
If you insist on using C++, try Win32 or GTK. See this thread.
Otherwise I recommend you try another language such as Python for the GUI part of your applications: Keep the rest in your preferred language and wrap. Do not forget the best feature of C++: binary compatibility with C.
If you have c++ foundation and want to expand that I recommend to start from Qt. It's distribution includes graphical UI designer and Asistant - browser for documentation. There is also separate product Qt Creator - complete IDE tailored for Qt which have everything integrated (including compiler). All of this if free and really easy to setup. Excellent tutorials included. Qt also includes non gui classes for common programming problems (like containers, variant type, etc.). You can convert your console application to GUI in a matter of few hours and decide if you want to continue learn it or try some other toolkit.
Just go to http://qt.nokia.com/downloads download SDK, install it and you have everyting to start coding.
QT is nice, but I have tried JUCE and now I think it is better.
JUCE is fast, clean an easy to use. You can integrate it with Eclipse and GCC (and minGW), use debug features (gdb under Eclipse) and more.
You can compile your code in Windows, Linux, OSX, IOS and Androis without makes much changes.
Keep an eye on their website:
http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce.php
If you speak Spanish look at this link:
http://juceratot.eshost.es
Regard
I’d like to develop an application with a complex GUI (combobox with animation, charts with spline, transparent layers, …). I have good experience with C# 2.0 and I’m studying WPF, but I read that, unfortunately, there is no plan to port WPF to Mono.
If I stick with C# and create custom GUI controls using OpenGL (via OpenTK), I feel it will be a hard work (integration with GTK#, debugging, hard to use to design forms).
I can use Java (with JOGL), but I’m not very skilled with it, and I don’t know about performance issues.
Last option is C++, but I have to do a big revision (years since last time I used it), and I find it hard to develop GUI and portable applications in C++. (Maybe I’m wrong! Still, I’m quite afraid to develop such complex application with this language.)
What is your advice? Had I better choose C# + OpenTK, Java + JOGL, or return to C++?
I would go with Qt. Take a look at http://qt.nokia.com/products/ . If you are afraid of C++ (but there is no reason to be afraid of it), you can try with Java Swing. I think that those are the best options to go with multi platform desktop GUI development.
I would suggest Mono and GTK#. Developing apps with .Net is far more effective than doing it in C++ vanilla. Sure, you have to stick with C# 3.0 and .Net 2.0 (some features from 3.5 is implemented, like LINQ). But it still gives you a lot more than C++ with, for instance QT, would give you.
Go C# for productivity. Nothing against C++ but it's a bit verbose.
As for the GUI library, I think WinForms used to work on Mono. Alternatively, GTK#.
I would not suggest using wpf for it is a platform dependant platform. Silverlight might be a better option.
But if you are developing a web application, jquery would be a nice option you also might consider adobe flex and adobe air; http://www.adobe.com/products/air/
Does multi-platform have to include iDevices? Can it be on the web? Those are 2 questions you have to answer first.
If you can live without iPad/iPhone suppport, then Flex/Flash/Air is good option for highly graphical things. It is multi-platform for sure and easily integrates to the web. Probably your best option for this case with the limited details given.
Qt could work for you as well, although I can't say for sure if it's graphic library will make it easy. I've personally never worked with it, so other would have to answer that. But since it is in C++, you could use other libraries as well.
Java Swing sounds rough to me for this complex of a GUI. Making some basic stuff isn't too bad, but if you are expecting an experience like with C# I think you will be frustrated. Just a personal opinion of course.
Lastly, if it can be a web app, why not stick with C# and Silverlight? A .NET solution may work well for you since you are already learning it.
Silverlight runs on Windows/Mac/Linux and some handhelds, and is being ported to more handhelds. I believe Silverlight will ultimately be ported to every popular device.
Silverlight is:
Much, much more powerful than Flex/Flash/Air.
Much, much more powerful than Qt.
Ridiculously more powerful than GTK+ or GTK#.
Ridiculously more powerful than JOGL.
Silverlight has all of the features you have requested.
Silverlight works very well with C#, which is a much more productive language to work in than C++.
Silverlight is basically a very large subset of WPF, so if you already know WPF, you already know Silverlight.
Unless you absolutely require iPhone/iPad support I think the decision is perfectly obvious.
See this comparison of WPF and Cocoa to get some feeling of how WPF/Silverlight compares with the likes of Qt, Flash/Flex/Air, and GTK#, all of which use a primitive WinForms-like object model similar to the one used by Cocoa.
At my day job (a well-known microprocessor company) we develop complex engineering apps with Java, Eclipse RCP, and Java OpenGL. Performance is good -- we can easily get many millions of polygons/second and up to 100 frames/second. The SWT widgets in Eclipse are fast enough where we haven't had to render any custom controls with JOGL.
I've got a set of tutorials that shows how to get started with this kind of programming. The series starts with http://wadeawalker.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/tutorial-a-cross-platform-workbench-program-using-java-opengl-and-eclipse/.
First, don’t use C# for anything that should be portable. Mono is a bad option for GUI for two reasons:
Mono goes always several steps behind .NET.
Mono does not support WPF, so the only way to develop GUI is using something like GTK#.
My personal opinion – use C++. It would give you very good portability and independence.
You have two options:
Qt4 – very good GUI toolkit, makes GUI development very easy, and highly portable.
GTKmm – also very good toolkit, but it feels less natural on Windows.
Also, Java has Swing toolkit that comes with JDK and is available on all Java platforms, even very strange ones like OpenVMS.
So I've been learning C# for like a year now (I'm 20 years old) and I'm getting pretty confident with it. I've also been meddling with C++ every now and again. For example just recently I've been following the Nehe OpenGL tutorials for C++ and I find it a fun way of learning.
I want to start looking at creating cross platform GUI software after I stumbled across this library called FLTK (fluid something rather). After finally and painfully getting it to work I found it refreshing to know that there are solutions for GUI creation in C++, however I think FLTK looked pretty old.
So I googled around for some newer GUI frameworks and decided to start playing with wxWidgets (decided against Qt because of licensing).
I downloaded it, compiled it, and looked to see if there were any IDE plug-ins for RAD development, as you can imagine going from drag and drop a component onto a form in C# I was hoping for something similar.
I learned that code::blocks has something of the sort so I tried that out. It was alright but the thing that turned me off was the horrible code completion; it would only show members and methods in the current object and nothing for the #included header files. I understand that code completion/IntelliSense isn't easy for C++ but Visual Studio 2008 handles it pretty good. I did find some other RAD tools like wxFormBuilder but it costs money, not something I want to do for simply learning.
So my TLDR question is if anyone has had experience with wxWidgets? Do you just develop in whatever IDE you're comfortable with and just code the GUI? Meaning no visual helpers? Perhaps you could give me a nudge in what direction I should be going :)
Thanks, this is also my first post on this site albeit I have read many threads before that have helped me solve copious problems. Cheers!
My suggestion is to learn how to do GUI layout with wxWidgets in code, then when you get good at it learn how to use the GUI tools.
Doing this kind of work manually for a while gives you the understanding about what you need ("Ok, I need a wxSizer, vertical, to put these two horizontal wxSizers into, where I put my a wxStaticText and a wxTextCtl for each line ...")... where as I think if you started out with the GUI tools you'd just tend to get annoyed because (last time I looked) none of them were Drag And Drop editors like you get with .NET.
Definitely give Code::Blocks another try. It is a WONDERFUL environment to work with wxWidgets in. It comes with a form designer and templates for wxWidgets projects, so I can't imagine working without it.
Also, for a good beginner's introduction to wxWidgets, try this page. It helped me alot when I started with it.
I use wxWidgets without using a drag and drop designer. There are obviously drawbacks to that approach but an advantage is that you don't have any horrible automatically generated code to deal with. In the past I've found having such code in the middle of my project has caused various types of grief - especially if you decide it needs some serious changes it is often necessary to start from scratch because form designers are so much better at "writing" as opposed to "editing".
For simple applications you can assemble a UI using a mixture of customized and standard widgets without too much difficulty. Check out the wxWidgets samples and demos, which use that approach. My chess app (see my website) uses this approach too.
A more elaborate UI could possibly be implemented by writing something special at a higher level of abstraction. The kind of thing I am thinking of would be a subsystem that accepts high level flexible requests to provide different types of user interface functionality, and then sorts out the details of the controls to create and the positioning etc. of those controls itself. That is kind of a technical fantasy of mine but I haven't ever really attempted to do it. Actually, a fairly primitive facility of this type is already available and used by the demos I mentioned; It is called a "Sizer" (class wxSizer) and is basically a control container.
Finally I would point out that problems with the Qt licence have basically gone away since Nokia bought Trolltech and made it "more" free (LGPL licence). Many people think Qt is the way to go these days. I am pretty happy with wxWidgets but will definitely evaluate Qyt seriously one day. Good luck with your projects.
I have developed a number of application GUIs using wxWidgets - you can see screenshots at http://ravenspoint.com/
IMHO, you should distinguish between designing a GUI and implementing it. Expecting to use the same program to design your GUI and to automatically emit all the code to implement the design is expecting too much.
A design program should be fast and simple. I recommend http://www.balsamiq.com/
Once you have settled on the design, then you can turn to the coding. Personally, I find that placing widgets on a panel using the wxPosition and wxSize parameters of the wxWidget constructors to be trivial - easier than trying to nudge widgets into their exact positions using the mouse.
The trouble with using some kind of form builder to emit all the code for a significant GUI is that you end up with a morass of automatically generated code that is hard to find your way around in. If the code has been handwritten, then you already know where everything is located.
wxFormBuilder but it costs money
wxFormBuilder is Free and Open source
Also Visual Studio is best for C++ coding in wxWidgets, but you will run into lots of issues on Linux due to the way Visual Studio handles a lot of things, like file names you have to take extra care for case sensitivity.
Also regarding the GUI, add the wxFormBuilder to the Visual Studio solution, add the file type handler to Visual Studio. Now just double click on it and add your dialogs, like you do it in C#.
Just add the generated code files to the Visual Studio project once and you are done.
It's very easy to use Visual Studio with GUI programming in wxWidgets.
Also don't forget to watch the CodeLite editor if you want to port on Linux. It is very much compatible with the Visual Studio projects and shortcut keys.
There is wxGlade and wxFormBuilder.
I don't know if there is another one, but the wxFormBuilder I know is free and open source.
You will find links to other tools on the homepage
of wxGlade (http:// wxglade.sourceforge.net/).
Most of these programs are able to output xrc files, which are are an XML representation of your GUI. It address the issue of complexity of the generated code but is not as powerful.
Yet personally I don't use any of these tools, except sometimes to see what it's going to look like before I do it but never to actually generate code.
I just finished doing a hello world program in both wx and fltk using the netbeans IDE. Microsoft Visual Studio WinForms or MFC was much easier than either. I needed cross platform capability so I could not use it for this application. I finished fltk in much less time than wx. The program was simpler, smaller, faster, and easier to write. Wx had pretty disjointed documentation and organization. Fltk was designed back in the "old days" when small fast and efficient was valued. That's probably why it seems "old" to you. I'm an old guy so it worked for me. YMMV
I wanted to learn to program and looked at both Java and C#. I decided to go with C# because it was so easy to just open a form and plop some buttons and text boxes on it. With just one download, C# Express got me going.
From what I saw with Java that couldn’t be done. At least not without downloading and configuring other software. All of which I found no easy instructions for. But I really wanted to learn Java.
I really don’t want to learn how to create UIs AND a new language. I’d rather just to concentrate on the code itself. Is there an easy way (like C# basically) to create Java apps?
Are you talking about a GUI builder?
There are many GUI builders out there. Some IDEs like Netbeans come with nice GUI builders for Java.
There are options in the Java community for 'one-stop downloads' like you mention. They are out there, they're just not as public as Visual Studio is. EasyEclipse is one of my favorites.
I've done a fair bit of work (> 4 years) on both platforms and the biggest difference I have found is not so much with the languages per se, but with the whole development environment. Specifically:
In .Net (be it ASP.Net, C# or VB.Net) the examples you find on MSDN or elsewhere tend to just work without a whole lot of tweaking, and the documentation is more reliable, whereas Java examples - especially the open source ones - often don't work out of the box and the documentation (yes, Apache Slide and Shindig - I'm looking at YOU!) is sometimes non-existent.
Having said that, the sheer amount of choice for plugins, libraries and the like for the Java platform is enormous, which is unsurprising considering its (largely) non-proprietary nature.
It seems to me the best and easier way to get what you want is to use Netbeans (JDK 6u14 with NetBeans IDE 6.5.1 Bundle).
It has both the JDK and the IDE in one download. And it has a easy and very good GUI builder.
Java is a very good platform and as you said it is easier to create cross platform applications, however, don't except this from the Desktop UI which, although still cross platform, not always gets right on all platforms with out modification.
You would have to add some code specific for each target desktop, but definitely that's a lot easier than write three different application ( One in Visual C#, other in GTK, and other in Cocoa )
I been learning to program in C# for a few months, but recently I signed up for a course which required Java. So I started playing around with java, first tried Netbeans then Eclipse.
I'm kinda a computer programming noobie (background mainly in web design) so take my perspective as a student. After messing around with Java for a bit i still prefer C#. While both are excellent the factors that tipped C# in my case are as follows
Easier documentation and a large variety of easy to view Video Tutorials, yes I know netbeans have a very large collection of video tutorials as well, they are encoded at such a terrible resolution and bitrate that they are largely unwatchable
Slightly easier to learn, maybe it's cause of the IDE or the syntax, but I found C# easier to pick up.
More functionality exposed right after using the IDE, you will find more controls in visual studio than compared to Netbeans. Eclipse was quite confusing for a noobie like me wading through it's massive plugins.
I think the only thing java has going for it, is that it's supported on more platforms. Though Mono is making up for the linux and Apple side so i guess it's not that bad. Either way they are both extremely productive environments, just in my humble noobie opninion C# is just slightly more intuitive to pick up.
The ability to learn to program in one language or another should most certainly not be based upon how to drag and drop GUI controls, especially since that measure is irrelevant to the language itself.
Side note: Java and C# are so similar that you'll pretty much be learning both as you go regardless.
I'd have to agree with dxmio, I switch back and forth between c# and java quite often. The two languages are quite similar.
The best way of learning programming .. is to write code!
If you know your way around Java, It's a mater of syntax to learn C#.
Programming is just as much a way of thinking in code, as knowing a language.
Personally, I didn't start with GUI. I started with BlueJ, a free "learning" compiler, for Java code.
No programmer in the world knows any language 100%. Their all sitting in their office, and playing with stackoverflow and google all day. Remember, Google is your best friend! (May be a bit of caffe too !)
Reminder: The best way to learn to write code, is to write code! If it's C, C++, C#, Java, PHP, Python or whatever you prefer, it's a matter of framework and syntax.
If you have Java in your browser, all you need is the latest Eclipse bundle.
I would suggest the Java EE edition for your platform from http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/
It appears that there are video tutorials starting from scratch at http://eclipsetutorial.sourceforge.net/totalbeginner.html
Using Netbeans, you can create Java based Swing GUIs pretty easily. Netbeans comes with a pretty nice GUI builder.
If you learn how to program in Java, I don't think it would really be that much of a stretch to create Java Swing applications from scratch. It's just a matter of learning the Swing libraries.
Not being from a .NET background, I can't comment on learning C# GUIs, but from my experience Swing was very easy to learn and it helps A LOT to understand the code underlying what the GUI builder in Netbeans generates.
I decided to go with C# because it was so easy to just open a form and plop some buttons and text boxes on it.
You can do this using builders in either language without writing any code.
With just one download, C# Express got me going.
Netbeans is the same deal for Java.
From what I saw with Java that couldn’t be done. At least not with out downloading and configuring other software.
True, you cannot develop Java with C# Express and you cannot develop in c~ using Netbeans. You do need to install two pieces of software.
All of which I found no easy instructions for.
I suggest you try http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=netbeans+gui+builder+tutorials 55,100 hits or http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=java+gui+tutorials 1,340,000 hits
But I really wanted to learn Java.
It doesn't appear you want to actually write any code or install more than one program at a time. You will find that learning to program in a language will be asking more from you than this.
Was I missing something?
Quite a bit I imagine.
I really don’t want to have to learn how to create UI’s AND a new language.
You can use a GUI builder to layout your windows, but if you want your program to do something useful, you will have to do some programing in a language.
I’d rather just want to concentrate on the code itself.
That appears to contradict everything you have just said. You can't concentrate on the code without learning the language.
Is there an easy way (like C# basically) to create Java apps?
To write apps that do something useful you are going to have to learn how to program and at least one language. I suggest you also learn how to debug and profile your program.
i found this for designing java winform application for you .
please check out
www.formdev.com
JFormDesigner™ is a professional GUI designer for Java™ Swing user interfaces. Its outstanding support for JGoodies FormLayout, GroupLayout (Free Design), TableLayout and GridBagLayout makes it easy to create professional looking forms.
I'd like to study up on the latest technologies for writing Windows desktop apps. My last experience was with VC++ 6 using MFC. The landscape seems more complex these days, I'm not sure if I should learn .NET, don't really know what Windows forms, WPF are etc. All I want to do is be able to write some simple Windows GUI apps, probably using & learning C# along the way.
Any recommendations on books to read etc?
Also, is the free version of VC2008 good enough for writing small apps?
I would go with .NET and WPF. WinForms is still available, but is really a legacy branch of .NET at this point, and not worth learning if you are starting from scratch. WPF offers a lot of good features, and is pretty use to get up and running with.
I found "Windows Presentation Foundation Unleashed" a good introduction to WPF. It explained the foundational concepts well and wasn't just one of those 2,000 page tutorials full of screen shots.
I recommend Head First C#. If you've programmed in C++ before, you should be up to speed fairly quickly.
alt text http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51u3iZDwU6L._SL500_AA240_.jpg
MFC has changed very little since vc 6 you should be able to pick it up again with little trouble and while this skill set may not be as indemand as .net There are still jobs out there and you can still write compelling windows applications.
I would start with reading C# online tutorials and articles from Code Project
Well, if you are using C# you are using .NET. .NET really is a great framework for creating desktop applications. I think you are on the right track.
Actually, I learned ALOT just browsing Stack Overflow and posting a few questions here. I think the Visual Studio Express tools are great for new developers. I'm also a fan of Bob Tabor's stuff (http://www.learnvisualstudio.net/) He does have some free stuff located on MSDN here that was really helpful for a guy like me with a mostly scripting background. You may be ahead of me because of your past experience so perhaps it's too rudimentary for you.
I'm really starting to enjoy C# and .NET and just started to be able to read code and for the most part, comprehend it. It was quite a breakthrough for me.
Jim
If you've got a C++ background and aren't afraid of pointers/stack/heap etc, then this book (CLR vi C#) will give you a superb understanding of .Net. It is very readable and will provide the foundations you need to be able to understand just about any new/up and coming .Net technology (e.g. Linq, extension methods, etc).
VS2008 express editions are available free here and are good enough for writing small apps.
Developing windows application is not at all a difficult task using visual studio and .Net.
Just Install visual studio watch some video tutorials of visual studio and C# .net from www.youtube.com and then kick start your development.
Since you have a background of development so there won't be a barrier in writing logic, you may slightly face problem with classes use object browser of visual studio to overcome problem with class.