(HOBBY) I own a Macbook Pro and iPod Touch so developing iPhone/iPod/iPad apps seems like a logical thing to do in order to get some experience in the programming field. Besides I want to write a new application similar to the Capsuleer (Character skills monitor app for EVE Online MMO) but with more features. It's something I'd love to have on my own iPod Touch and I am sure other people will welcome a new EVE Online app for their iPhone or iPod Touch.
(CAREER) I want to learn ASP.NET (and possibly Silverlight later on) for my potential future job. I plan to work in the .NET field, so it's a good idea for me to start learning C# and ASP.NET ASAP.
Is it a good idea to learn completely unrelated technologies at the same time? Or would it be better to learn one thing at a time? Objective-C first, and ASP.NET second. Or vice versa.
Thanks,
Sahat
UPDATE 1: I am reading both ASP.NET 4.0 and Objective-C 2.0 books right now and let me tell it's going great so far! Diversity is probably what makes it so fun and less dry. While I am on the bus to Manhattan in the morning I learn about ASP.NET and Visual Web Developer 2010. While I am in school I am programming a robot in C++ for the Summer Robotics Workshop. And when I am heading back home I am learning Objective-C! I was really scared at first to learn 2 completely unrelated programming languages, but as it turns out it's not too bad!
It depends on your comfort level with languages in general. If you have decent experience, then moving from one language to another should eventually get to be very fluid. As an example, I'm a .NET developer during the day, but usually mess around with Objective-C and Ruby at night. I think the only downside is being frustrated with each language (for example, "why can't c# do this thing that ruby can do?") But in general, it is pretty easy to isolate the two, especially if you're good at compartmentalizing things in general.
Personally, I'd say go for it. Immersion in a single language can get you far, but I think seeing multiple languages and platforms regularly makes you a better programmer in general. It will show you different approaches to the same problem, and will teach you how to decide what tools to use for a particular problem. Plus, it beefs up the resume. Don't discount the power of Objective-C being on that piece of paper, because there are good careers to be had there. And as the Mac platform becomes more and more popular, many companies will begin to port .NET desktop apps to OSX, and knowing both could be an invaluable asset.
Since you are keen on developing for iphone. Focus on objective C.
Think of it as C with a decent Object Oriented extension.
You will learn C and object oriented. And it is apple friendly.
Career wise it will be pretty timely resume stuffer to have an Iphone app in your
portfolio.
On the other hand I recommend you learn how to design programs first.
The time you spend will be repayed in your first project.
You will be leveraging it from then on. It is really the best route.
To learn that.. go here: http://www.htdp.org
They have a great free downloadable dev environment and tons of material online.
They are the best thing since sliced bread.
You can work through their stuff really fast and dont waste time caught up
in syntax irrelevance.
That's pretty much my coding life in a nutshell, so it's quite possible and practical. I learned .NET on the job and taught myself Objective-C.
You didn't mention if you have any prior programming experience, and that changes the advice drastically. If you have no understanding of object-oriented development or programming in general, I would recommend staying the hell away from O-C for awhile. I wasted many high school hours trying to learn Cocoa working off of one semester of C++ programming. When I got into college and objects were the norm, Cocoa made much more sense.
Once you have a little understanding of object-oriented programming, you could even teach yourself the basics of Cocoa...without writing in Cocoa. Cocoa apps are written in a structure called Model-View-Controller (MVC), and Visual Studio has a very popular and well-supported MVC template for writing C# applications.
Good luck!
Objective-C on iPhone and C# on ASP.NET are very different, but there are lots of similarities too:
Both options have comprehensive Integrated Development Environments with debugger and other tools.
Both support modern program design paradigms like Model-View-Controller.
Both have online documentation and lots of sample code.
Both systems have large numbers of proponents, especially on StackOverflow :-)
Both languages have C-like syntax - curly braces, etc.
The biggest difference, in my opinion, is the output. iPhone OS will give you a binary which requires proper packaging to be able to be used by another person. Outside of ad-hoc deployment, actually getting your app to other people has some hoops to jump through and some $$$ to pay.
ASP.NET can be used by anyone you give access to - hosted on your server, etc.
To be able to compare and contrast, its often possible to write the same program in two different systems to be able to see how they differ. Due to the form factor and aforementioned iPhone deployment, this is harder.
As a learning exercise, I would go ahead and do both in parallel, sure, but understand if you want to go all the way to publishing your code, each option is very different.
Related
I've used C# quite a lot, it was my main programming language during University and I wondered which of the two languages for developing for Android or iPhone are easiest to learn bearing that in mind.
I'm interested in people's opinions on the two languages, I've dabbled a little in both but nothing more than a couple of hours. I'm also interested in people's opinions on Windows Phone 7 as an app/game platform, as this uses C# so would be an obvious choice for transitioning into that area.
Opinions?
That would be Java but you will miss LINQ a lot.
You can develop in C# for the iPhone with MonoTouch but it's not free and you'll never know if Apple sends them out in the cold (unlikely). Soon you can even use C# for Android development with MonoDroid but I kind of feel that that's a smaller win for a C# programmer than not having to learn Objective-C. Java and C# are so close that the transition most probably will be smooth.
As a C# programmer I think that the Windows Phone 7 development platform looks very promising but my experience tells me to wait and see. Microsoft has a terrible track record in the mobile business and they also have a tendency to make big changes between early releases.
Java I think. The semantic model for C# is closer, and ObjectiveC for iPhone apparently is not garbage collected. You will probably miss some of the features of C#, but most people get over it.
Your choice of language will depend on your motives. If you intend to write commercial software that you want to sell, it's probably best to go for Objective-C and aim at the iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad. Objective-C is a steeper learning curve for a C# programmer than Java but that is as nothing compared with actually thinking up an app that people will want to buy and getting it to commercial quality. And people who own iDevices are still more numerous than people with Android devices and they probably have more expectation of having to pay for apps.
If you are doing it as a hobby then you will want to choose whichever platform your current smartphone/tablet or whatever supports. You are going to be the primary user of your apps. It makes sense to develop apps that you can use. Another consideration, if you are a hobbyist: to develop an iPhone app you need an Intel Macintosh and a $99 Apple electronic certificate to deploy apps to an iPhone even for testing.
The actual language is a relatively minor consideration. A reasonably competent programmer can pick up Objective-C in a couple of weeks. The frameworks will take a little longer, but if you are doing it as a learning experience, it will be a more rewarding experience than learning Java which is nearly the same as C# by comparison.
I have a co-worker who made an attempt to learn Objective C to do I-phone development. We are both .Net developers working mostly in C#. He had a very long learning curve and finally abandoned trying to learn Objective C not only because of the language barrier but also because of the setup. Coming from a C# background, expect a long haul getting your arms around Objective C. Java on the other hand is more like C# and might be better to start with. I am in the same boat as you and actually decided on Windows Phone 7 development first because it is C#. I would go after the droid market next as I think it would be easier to learn.
I know this has been said before, I figured I would point out a fact, C# came about because of the law suit surrouding Microsoft's Java Virtual Machine. I would describe C# as the son of Java and C++, at least in early versions. C# 4.0 has added features neither of them have, its really matured into its own language.
So if you come from a C# background then you should be able to pick up Java effortlessly. Of course Objective-C is C++ on crack, so it should still be possible, what you will miss is Visual Studio and all the features it brings. The reason C# is so easy to develop for is all the features in Visual Studio and most of the features of the language are supported.
As you can see, C# is partially based on Java, so that step would be a lot easier.
I'm also familiar with Java, C# and ObjC and started out with C#, then did Java and now use Objective-C..
And the C# -> Java part was because my education did it that way.. ;-)
And because WEBAPPS are a thing that is HOT right now.. i would say.. Java is a safer choice, because you could base a webapp on that.. although ObjC might also have those possibilities, i just don't know about it..
I switched from C# to Java because I needed to code a lot of systems integration. C# was just not powerful enough / limited to .NET systems. I agree that LINQ is a nice feature, and that generics in C# are a lot more straightforward, but if you start looking at the whole Java ecosystem, I guess these are just minor losses.
Just to sum up some great things you get when switching to Java: Eclipse IDE, maven build system, Spring dependency injection and aspect oriented programming framework + OSGi, GlassFish application server, Grizzly, Jetty, Hadoop, the apache commons libraries, ... . All these things come in Java, and are very useful when you start programming services.
I don't know about Objective-C
Hope this helps,
J.
Have you considered using MonoTouch?
I've decided to start writing an iPhone app and coming from a c# background, I thought I'd start developing it with mono.
Though this question may be subjective, I'd love some guidance from you.
Is it safe to develop my app using this technology, or should I buy some books and start learning objective C?
I know Adobe were going to release a feature that allows you to build iPhone apps using Flash CS5, but this didn't last long.
I appreciate your feedback.
Marko
Monotouch is doing a great job of keeping up to date (usually within 24 hours of api updates) so just saying you have no idea about xyz but you know abc is much better than it is a bit silly. Monotouch has some serious advantages over obj c - for instance obj c has only been updated something like twice in the last twenty years!! expect good XML, regex, Http support? Think again. Linq in Obj c? never. Good OS community? Not likely. There's plenty of reasons to use MT, aside from C# being a far superior language. Being able to re-use a good percentage of your code in MonoDroid is one. Though there is word that apple are creating a new language - I'm not holding out too much hope for it. We'll see I guess.
I learned Obj C before getting into MT and the reason I went with MT is that using Obj C is like stepping back into the 90s. It just doesn't have any modern language features and is too far behind the curve. Create your bleeding edge apps with their archaic langauge? Thanks but no thanks.
None of us except people who work very closely with the OS and the App store policy in Apple would know whether it is "safe" to develop apps using this technology. Apple can say no anytime in the future, but we don't know. What we know is that all the compiled code has to be in C, C++, or Obj-C. However there's one catch: In some cases you can run interpreted languages.
If I were you, I'd go with Objective-C. We know that Apple supports it fully, it's been in there for almost 20 years. It's not that hard to learn since you know C#. I came from C++/C and it took me about a month or so to learn half of the frameworks. There are many other frameworks which I didn't learn because they're not applicable in my apps (such as accelerators, GPS, OpenGL ES, etc). You probably can get away with this too.
Once again, there's also another way: build it with HTML5. However that way you'd have to consider what your app'll do when it's opened with Safari desktop, Firefox, IE, etc.
The iPhone dev agreement is pretty clear that C# is not an accepted technology for developing iPhone apps. Regardless, Monotouch apps have still been accepted to the app store to date without any problems. My suggestion is to keep in touch with the Monotouch forums to see what their stance is on this issue and make your decision based on that. The long term safe bet is to go learn Objective-C.
Recently Apple changed the clause relating to the third party development tools now stating that if you have prior approval you can use them. I haven't seen any official word that Mono will be allowed though.
If you are coming from a c# background I would highly recommend learning Obj-C because it always helps knowing another language and you could pick it up reasonably easily. Have a look at the stanford University iPhone lectures, they were the best resource when I was learning.
Although I haven't personally used C# or Mono, the iOS SDK once you get to know it has some really great work behind it making it both easy and powerful once you get used to it and I would be surprised if Mono took advantage of it all.
I think it's important to learn the language the frameworks for your platform of choice were written in. Then you can understand more why the frameworks are the way they are, and often anticipate behavior or API calls just based on knowing what is typical for the language and framework.
On top of that there is now a ton of support for blocks across the API (iOS4 and on only), which may take some time to be incorporated into MonoTouch. Overlay frameworks are always a step behind the base platform so it's nicer to be using the frameworks directly.
It's now been months since the Flash debacle and Monotouch and Unity are still rocking along.
As developers in a .NET shop we're looking at expanding into iOS development. After prototyping some fairly basic stuff in Objective-C, We're 100% committed to using Monotouch, it's worth every penny.
i am currently a PHP web developer (university student next year). i want to learn more about C#/WPF development (mainly windows development first).
i know of Channel 9, Windows Client, C# How do i.
since i know programming, i dont want to spend so much time with the very basic syntax etc, which i sometime find that books do (i am reading Accelerated C# 2010, tho i find it kind of wordy, i prefer something more visual, like videos, diagrams etc if possible).
i know of PHP blogs like zend casts or killerphp, there are books like survive the deep end that are shorter than 600 pages book. such resources are what i am looking for
It's been almost 8 years since I started with C#, so I don't know where all the 'cool' kids go, but MSDN is usually a good place to start:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/default.aspx
If you've done java then C# will be pretty easy to pick up. Difference worth noting because they make life a lot easier are things like Properties, Lambda expressions and LINQ, so once you get grounded it's worth getting into that.
If you're doing WPF then I HIGHLY recommend you get your head around "MVVM" and Expression Blend, they'll change your life ;)
http://hugeonion.com/2009/02/15/intro-to-wpf-mvvm/
Also, feel free to read blogs on Silverlight, most of the stuff applies to WPF as well.
To be honest, if all of your experience is with PHP, you probably want to focus on OOP (Object-Oriented Programming) in general, rather than the specific syntax and frameworks of C#. The language itself shouldn't be massively alien to you, but the idioms and standard approaches to many problems likely will be.
Two books I would recommend for anyone starting on an OOP language:
The Pragmatic Programmer - An invaluable reference for any programmer, but it really does focus on static OOP languages such as C#.
Head First Object Oriented Analysis and Design - A java book, ironically, but the concepts taught within are perfectly applicable to C#, and it's an excellent, clear, easy to follow introduction on the proper design of object oriented software.
I'm also PHP dev (my primary profession), but I'm also doing C# codding (for personal needs and fun).
I've learned C# simply by experimenting.
My suggestion to you is to download Visual Studio Express 2010 and Google search for C# beginners tutorial (Search , Example Result) .
Only thing you need to get started is basic syntax knowledge and idea. VSE 2010 will generate lots of code for you (especially for Windows Forms project where you just need to design form and then click elements to add events).
As far as WPF concerned, I can't tell you more because I've never worked with that.
Happy codding ;)
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After sitting through a session today on Mono at a local .Net event, the use of MonoTouch was 'touched' upon as an alternative for iPhone development. Being very comfortable in C# and .Net, it seems like an appealing option, despite some of the quirkiness of the Mono stack. However, since MonoTouch costs $400, I'm somewhat torn on if this is the way to go for iPhone development.
Anyone have an experience developing with MonoTouch and Objective-C, and if so is developing with MonoTouch that much simpler and quicker than learning Objective-C, and in turn worth the $400?
I've seen this question (and variations on it) a lot lately. What amazes me is how often people respond, but how few answer.
I have my preferences (I enjoy both stacks), but this is where most "answers" start to go wrong. It shouldn't be about what I want (or what anybody else wants).
Here's how I'd go about determining the value of MonoTouch - I can't be objective, obviously, but I think this is pretty zealotry-free:
Is this for fun or business? If you wanted to get into consulting in this area, you could make your $399 back very quickly.
Do you want to learn the platform inside-out, or do you "just" want to write apps for it?
Do you like .Net enough that using a different dev stack would take the fun out of it for you? Again, I like both stacks (Apple and Mono), but for me MonoTouch makes the experience that much more fun. I haven't stopped using Apple's tools, but that's mainly because I really do enjoy both stacks. I love the iPhone, and I love .Net. In that case, for me, MonoTouch was a no-brainer.
Do you feel comfortable working with C? I don't mean Objective-C, but C - it matters because Objective-C is C. It's a nice, fancy, friendly OO version, but if pointers give you the heebie-jeebies, MonoTouch is your friend. And don't listen to the naysayers who think you're a dev wuss if it happens that you don't like pointers (or C, etc.). I used to walk around with a copy of the IBM ROM BIOS Pocket Reference, and when I was writing assembly and forcing my computer into funny video modes and writing my own font rendering bits for them and (admittedly trashy) windowing systems, I didn't think the QuickBasic devs were wusses. I was a QuickBasic dev (in addition to the rest). Never give in to nerd machismo. If you don't like C, and if you don't like pointers, and if you want to stay as far away from manual memory management as possible (and, to be fair, it's not bad at all in ObjC), then... MonoTouch. And don't take any guff for it.
Would you like to target users or businesses? It doesn't matter much to me, but there are still people out there on Edge, and the fact is: you can create a far smaller download package if you use Apple's stack. I've been playing around with MonoTouch, and I have a decent little app going that, once compressed, gets down to about 2.7 MB (when submitting your app for distribution, you zip it - when apps are downloaded from the store, they're zipped - so when figuring out if your app is going to come in under the 10MB OTA limit, zip the sucker first - you WILL be pleasantly surprised with MonoTouch). But, MT happiness aside, half a meg vs. nearly three (for example) is something that might be important to you if you're targeting end users. If you're thinking of enterprise work, a few MB won't matter at all. And, just to be clear - I'm going to be submitting a MT-based app to the store soonishly, and I have no problem whatsoever with the size. Doesn't bother me at all. But if that's something that would concern you, then Apple's stack wins this one.
Doing any XML work? MonoTouch. Period.
String manipulation? Date manipulation? A million other little things we've gotten used to with .Net's everything-AND-the-kitchen-sink frameworks? MonoTouch.
Web services? MonoTouch.
Syntactically, they both have their advantages. Objective-C tends to be more verbose where you have to write it. You'll find yourself writing code with C# you wouldn't have to write with ObjC, but it goes both ways. This particular topic could fill a book. I prefer C# syntax, but after getting over my initial this-is-otherworldly reaction to Objective-C, I've learned to enjoy it quite a bit. I make fun of it a bit in talks (it is weird for devs who're used to C#/Java/etc.), but the truth is that I have an Objective-C shaped spot in my heart that makes me happy.
Do you plan to use Interface Builder? Because, even in this early version, I find myself doing far less work to build my UIs with IB and then using them in code. It feels like entire steps are missing from the Objective-C/IB way of doing things, and I'm pretty sure it's because entire steps are missing from the Objective-C/IB way of doing things. So far, and I don't think I've sufficiently tested, but so far, MonoTouch is the winner here for how much less work you have to do.
Do you think it's fun to learn new languages and platforms? If so, the iPhone has a lot to offer, and Apple's stack will likely get you out of your comfort-zone - which, for some devs, is fun (Hi - I'm one of those devs - I joke about it and give Apple a hard time, but I've had a lot of fun learning iPhone development through Apple's tools).
There are so many things to consider. Value is so abstract. If we're talking about cost and whether it's worth it, the answer comes down to my first bullet item: if this is for business, and if you can get the work, you'll make your money right back.
So... that's about as objective as I can be. This is a short list of what you might ask yourself, but it's a starting point.
Personally (let's drop the objectivity for a moment), I love and use both. And I'm glad I learned the Apple stack first. It was easier for me to get up and running with MonoTouch when I already knew my way around Apple's world. As others have said, you're still going to be working with CocoaTouch - it's just going to be in a .Net-ized environment.
But there's more than that. The people who haven't used MonoTouch tend to stop there - "It's a wrapper blah blah blah" - that's not MonoTouch.
MonoTouch gives you access to what CocoaTouch has to offer while also giving you access to what (a subset of) .Net has to offer, an IDE some people feel more comfortable with (I'm one of them), better integration with Interface Builder, and although you don't get to completely forget about memory-management, you get a nice degree of leeway.
If you aren't sure, grab Apple's stack (it's free), and grab the MonoTouch eval stack (it's free). Until you join Apple's dev program, both will only run against the simulator, but that's enough to help you figure out if you vastly prefer one to the other, and possible whether MonoTouch is, for you, worth the $399.
And don't listen to the zealots - they tend to be the ones who haven't used the technology they're railing against :)
There is a lot of hearsay in this post from developers that have not tried MonoTouch and Objective-C. It seems to be mostly be Objective-C developers that have never tried MonoTouch.
I am obviously biased, but you can check out what the MonoTouch community has been up to in:
http://xamarin.com
There you will find several articles from developers that have developed in both Objective-C and C#.
So, my answer to a previous similar question is to learn Objective-C. (Also, don't forget about debugging support)
This will probably offend some but to
be honest, if you are going to do any
serious development, you should learn
Objective-C. Not knowing Objective-C
in iPhone development will just be a
hindrance. You won't be able to
understand many examples; you have to
deal with the quirks of Mono whereas
if you had a working knowledge of
Objective-C you could get a lot more
out of the platform documentation.
Personally, I don't understand the
position that says increasing the
amount of information you need in
favor of using Mono over the
platform's native language. It seems
somewhat counterproductive to me. I
think if this is a very expensive
proposition (learning a new language)
then it may be worthwhile spending
some time on fundamental programming
concepts so that learning new
languages is a fairly cheap
proposition.
Another user also wrote this:
Monotouch is easier for you now. But harder later.
For example, what happens when new seeds come out you need to test against but break MonoTouch for some reason?
By sticking with Mono, any time you are looking up resources for frameworks you have to translate mentally into how you are going to use them with Mono. Your app binaries will be larger, your development time not that much faster after a few months into Objective-C, and other app developers will have that much more of an advantage over you because they are using the native platform.
Another consideration is that you are looking to use C# because you are more familiar with the language than Objective-C. But the vast majority of the learning curve for the iPhone is not Objective-C, it is the frameworks - which you will have to call into with C# as well.
For any platform, you should use the platform that directly expresses the design philosophy of that platform - on the iPhone, that is Objective-C. Think about this from the reverse angle, if a Linux developer used to programming in GTK wanted to write Windows apps would you seriously recommend that they not use C# and stick to GTK because it was "easier" for them to do so?
Using Mono is not a crutch. There are many things that it adds to the iPhone OS. LINQ, WCF, sharable code between a Silverlight app, an ASP.NET page, a WPF app, a Windows Form app, and there's also mono for Android and it will work for Windows Mobile as well.
So, you can spend a bunch of time writing Objective-C (You'll see from many studies where the exact same sample code in C# is significantly less to write than OC) and then DUPLICATE it all for other platforms. For me, I chose MonoTouch because the Cloud App I'm writing will have many interfaces, the iPhone being only one of them. Having WCF data streaming from the cloud to MonoTouch app is insanely simple. I have core libraries that are shared among the various platforms and then only need to write a simple presentation layer for the iPhone/WinMobile/Android/SilverLight/WPF/ASP.NET deployments. Recreating it all in Objective-C would be an enormous waste of time both for initial dev and maintenance as the product continues to move forward since all functionality would have to be replicated rather than reused.
The people who are insulting MonoTouch or insinuating that users of it need a crutch are lacking the Big Picture of what it means to have the .NET framework at your fingertips and maybe don't understand proper separation of logic from presentation done in a way that can be reused across platforms and devices.
Objective-C is interesting and very different from many common languages. I like a challenge and learning different approaches... but not when doing so impedes my progress or creates unnecessary re-coding. There are some really great things about the iPhone SDK framework, but all that greatness is fully supported with MonoTouch and cuts out all the manual memory management, reduces the amount of code required to perform the same tasks, allows me to reuse my assemblies, and keeps my options open to be able to move to other devices and platforms.
I switched. Monotouch let's me write apps at least 3-4 times as fast (4 apps per month compared to my old 1 per month in Obj C)
Lots less typing.
Just my experience.
If this is the only iPhone app you will ever develop, and you also have zero interest in developing Mac applications, ever, then MonoTouch is probably worth the cost.
If you think you'll ever develop more iPhone apps, or will ever want to do some Mac native development, it's probably worth it to learn Objective-C and the associated frameworks. Plus, if you're the type of programmer that enjoys learning new things, it's a fun new paradigm to study.
Personally I think you'll have a better time just learning Objective-C.
In short:
"Learning Objective-C" is not a daunting as you might think, you may even enjoy it after just the first few weeks
You are already familiar with the "C style" syntax with lots of *&(){}; everywhere
Apple has done a very good job of documenting things
You'll be interacting with the iPhone the way Apple intended, which means you'll get the benefits directly from the source not through some filter.
I have found that the projects like Unity and MonoTouch are supposed to "save you time" but ultimately you'll need to learn their domain specific language anyway and will have to side-step things at times. All that is probably going to take you just as long as it would to learn the language you were trying to avoid learning (in calendar time). In the end you didn't save any time and you are tightly coupled to some product.
EDIT: I never meant to imply anything negative about .NET I happen to be a big fan of it. My point is that adding more layers of complexity just because you aren't yet comfortable with the quirky objc bracket notation doesn't really make much sense to me.
2019 update: It's 7 years later. I still feel the same way if not more so. Sure, 'domain specific language' may have been the wrong term to use, but I still believe it's much better to write directly for the platform you are working with and avoid compatibility layers and abstractions as much as possible. If you are worried about code reuse and re-work, generally speaking any functionality your cross platform app needs to perform can probably be accomplished with modern web technologies.
To add to what others have already said (well!): my feeling is that you're basically doubling the number of bugs you have to worry about, adding the ones in MonoTouch to the ones already in iPhone OS. Updating for new OS versions will be even more painful than normal. Yuck, all around.
The only compelling case I can see for MonoTouch is organizations that have lots and lots of C# programmers and C# code lying around that they must leverage on iPhone. (The sort of shop that won't even blink at $3500.)
But for anyone starting out from scratch, I really can't see it as worthwhile or wise.
Three words: Linq to SQL
Yes it is well worth the $.
Something I'd like to add, even though there's an accepted answer - who is to say that Apple won't just reject apps that have signs of being built with Mono Touch?
I would invest the time in Objective-C mainly because of all the help you can get from sites like this. One of the strength's of Objective-C is that you can use C and C++ code, and there is a lot of projects out there that are well tested.
Another thing is that you're code (language of choice) will be supported by apple. What it iOS 5.x for instance removes the support for a third party solution like MonoTouch? What will you tell your customers then?
Maybe its better to use a platform independent solution like HTML5 if you're not entire ready to move to Objective-C?
I've been using MonoTouch for a few months now, I ported my half finished app from ObjectiveC so I could support Android at some point in the future.
Here's my experience:
Bad bits:
Xamarin Studio. Indie developers such as myself are forced into using Xamarin Studio. It is getting better every week, the developers are very active on the forums identifying and fixing bugs, but it's still very slow, frequently hangs, has a lot of bugs and debugging is pretty slow also.
Build times. Building my large (linked) app to debug on a device can take a few minutes, this is compared to XCode which deploys almost immediately. Building for the simulator (non-linked) is a bit quicker.
MonoTouch issues. I've experienced memory leak issues caused by the event handling, and have had to put in some pretty ugly workarounds to prevent the leaks, such as attaching and detaching events when entering and leaving views. The Xamarin developers are actively looking into issues like this.
3rd party libraries. I've spent quite a time converting/binding ObjectiveC libraries to use in my app, although this is getting better with automated software such as Objective Sharpie.
Larger binaries. This doesn't really bother me but thought I'd mention it. IMO a couple of extra Mb is nothing these days.
Good bits:
Multi-platform. My friend is happily creating an Android version of my app from my core codebase, we're developing in parallel and are committing to a remote Git repository on Dropbox, it's going well.
.Net. Working in C# .Net is much nicer than Objective C IMO.
MonoTouch. Pretty much everything in iOS is mirrored in .Net and it's fairly straight forward to get things working.
Xamarin. You can see that these guys are really working to improve everything, making development smoother and easier.
I definitely recommend Xamarin for cross platform development, especially if you have the money to use the Business or Enterprise editions that work with Visual Studio.
If you're solely creating an iPhone app that will never be needed on another platform, and you're an Indie developer, I'd stick with XCode and Objective C for now.
As someone with experience with both C# as well as Objective-C, I'd say for most people Xamarin will be well worth the money.
C# is a really good designed language and the C# API's are good designed as well. Of course the Cocoa Touch API's (including UIKit) have great design as well, yet the language could be improved in several ways. When writing in C# you will likely be more productive compared to writing the same code in Objective-C. This is due to several reasons, but some reasons would be:
C# has type inference. Type inference makes writing code quicker, since you don't have to "know" the type on the left-hand side of an assignment. It also makes refactoring easier and more saver.
C# has generics, which will reduce errors compared to equivalent Objective-C code (though there are some work-arounds in Objective-C, in most situations developers will avoid them).
Recently Xamarin added support for Async / Await, which makes writing asynchronous code very easy.
You'll be able to reuse part of the code base on iOS, Android and Windows Phone.
MonoTouch largely implements the CocoaTouch API's in a very straightforward way. E.g.: if you've got experience with CocoaTouch, you'll know where to find classes for controls in MonoTouch (MonoTouch.UIKit contains classes for UIButton, UIView, UINavigationController, etc..., likewise MonoTouch.Foundation got classes for NSString, NSData, etc...).
Xamarin will give users a native experience, unlike solutions like PhoneGap or Titanium.
Now Objective-C has some advantages over C#, but in most situations writing apps in C# will generally result in less develop time and cleaner code and less work to port the same app to other platforms. One notable exception might be high-performance games that rely on OpenGL.
The cost of the MonoTouch library is entirely beside the point. The reason you shouldn't use Mono for your iPhone apps, is that it is a crutch. If you can't be bothered to learn the native tools, then I have no reason to believe that your product is worth downloading.
Edit: 4/14/2010 Applications written with MonoTouch aren't eligible for the iTunes Store. This is as it should be. Apple saw plenty of shallow ports on the Mac, using cross-platform toolkits like Qt, or Adobe's own partial re-implementation of the System 7 toolbox, and the long and short of it is they're just not good enough.
I wanted to learn to program and looked at both Java and C#. I decided to go with C# because it was so easy to just open a form and plop some buttons and text boxes on it. With just one download, C# Express got me going.
From what I saw with Java that couldn’t be done. At least not without downloading and configuring other software. All of which I found no easy instructions for. But I really wanted to learn Java.
I really don’t want to learn how to create UIs AND a new language. I’d rather just to concentrate on the code itself. Is there an easy way (like C# basically) to create Java apps?
Are you talking about a GUI builder?
There are many GUI builders out there. Some IDEs like Netbeans come with nice GUI builders for Java.
There are options in the Java community for 'one-stop downloads' like you mention. They are out there, they're just not as public as Visual Studio is. EasyEclipse is one of my favorites.
I've done a fair bit of work (> 4 years) on both platforms and the biggest difference I have found is not so much with the languages per se, but with the whole development environment. Specifically:
In .Net (be it ASP.Net, C# or VB.Net) the examples you find on MSDN or elsewhere tend to just work without a whole lot of tweaking, and the documentation is more reliable, whereas Java examples - especially the open source ones - often don't work out of the box and the documentation (yes, Apache Slide and Shindig - I'm looking at YOU!) is sometimes non-existent.
Having said that, the sheer amount of choice for plugins, libraries and the like for the Java platform is enormous, which is unsurprising considering its (largely) non-proprietary nature.
It seems to me the best and easier way to get what you want is to use Netbeans (JDK 6u14 with NetBeans IDE 6.5.1 Bundle).
It has both the JDK and the IDE in one download. And it has a easy and very good GUI builder.
Java is a very good platform and as you said it is easier to create cross platform applications, however, don't except this from the Desktop UI which, although still cross platform, not always gets right on all platforms with out modification.
You would have to add some code specific for each target desktop, but definitely that's a lot easier than write three different application ( One in Visual C#, other in GTK, and other in Cocoa )
I been learning to program in C# for a few months, but recently I signed up for a course which required Java. So I started playing around with java, first tried Netbeans then Eclipse.
I'm kinda a computer programming noobie (background mainly in web design) so take my perspective as a student. After messing around with Java for a bit i still prefer C#. While both are excellent the factors that tipped C# in my case are as follows
Easier documentation and a large variety of easy to view Video Tutorials, yes I know netbeans have a very large collection of video tutorials as well, they are encoded at such a terrible resolution and bitrate that they are largely unwatchable
Slightly easier to learn, maybe it's cause of the IDE or the syntax, but I found C# easier to pick up.
More functionality exposed right after using the IDE, you will find more controls in visual studio than compared to Netbeans. Eclipse was quite confusing for a noobie like me wading through it's massive plugins.
I think the only thing java has going for it, is that it's supported on more platforms. Though Mono is making up for the linux and Apple side so i guess it's not that bad. Either way they are both extremely productive environments, just in my humble noobie opninion C# is just slightly more intuitive to pick up.
The ability to learn to program in one language or another should most certainly not be based upon how to drag and drop GUI controls, especially since that measure is irrelevant to the language itself.
Side note: Java and C# are so similar that you'll pretty much be learning both as you go regardless.
I'd have to agree with dxmio, I switch back and forth between c# and java quite often. The two languages are quite similar.
The best way of learning programming .. is to write code!
If you know your way around Java, It's a mater of syntax to learn C#.
Programming is just as much a way of thinking in code, as knowing a language.
Personally, I didn't start with GUI. I started with BlueJ, a free "learning" compiler, for Java code.
No programmer in the world knows any language 100%. Their all sitting in their office, and playing with stackoverflow and google all day. Remember, Google is your best friend! (May be a bit of caffe too !)
Reminder: The best way to learn to write code, is to write code! If it's C, C++, C#, Java, PHP, Python or whatever you prefer, it's a matter of framework and syntax.
If you have Java in your browser, all you need is the latest Eclipse bundle.
I would suggest the Java EE edition for your platform from http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/
It appears that there are video tutorials starting from scratch at http://eclipsetutorial.sourceforge.net/totalbeginner.html
Using Netbeans, you can create Java based Swing GUIs pretty easily. Netbeans comes with a pretty nice GUI builder.
If you learn how to program in Java, I don't think it would really be that much of a stretch to create Java Swing applications from scratch. It's just a matter of learning the Swing libraries.
Not being from a .NET background, I can't comment on learning C# GUIs, but from my experience Swing was very easy to learn and it helps A LOT to understand the code underlying what the GUI builder in Netbeans generates.
I decided to go with C# because it was so easy to just open a form and plop some buttons and text boxes on it.
You can do this using builders in either language without writing any code.
With just one download, C# Express got me going.
Netbeans is the same deal for Java.
From what I saw with Java that couldn’t be done. At least not with out downloading and configuring other software.
True, you cannot develop Java with C# Express and you cannot develop in c~ using Netbeans. You do need to install two pieces of software.
All of which I found no easy instructions for.
I suggest you try http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=netbeans+gui+builder+tutorials 55,100 hits or http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=java+gui+tutorials 1,340,000 hits
But I really wanted to learn Java.
It doesn't appear you want to actually write any code or install more than one program at a time. You will find that learning to program in a language will be asking more from you than this.
Was I missing something?
Quite a bit I imagine.
I really don’t want to have to learn how to create UI’s AND a new language.
You can use a GUI builder to layout your windows, but if you want your program to do something useful, you will have to do some programing in a language.
I’d rather just want to concentrate on the code itself.
That appears to contradict everything you have just said. You can't concentrate on the code without learning the language.
Is there an easy way (like C# basically) to create Java apps?
To write apps that do something useful you are going to have to learn how to program and at least one language. I suggest you also learn how to debug and profile your program.
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