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I'm building an application for multiple desktop platforms: Windows, Mac, and maybe later for Linux.
I was wondering which programming language and IDE combination would be the best for me:
Programming language need to be whether C# (preferred) or Java.
Core libraries must be shared between all platforms, means all platforms must link to a single core library (by library I mean a list of classes and functions).
Windows and Mac are in priority, Linux app is for future plannings.
Design of the app is completely custom, it doesn't follow any guidelines of each platforms.
I'm stuck between these three solutions:
Use Xamarin.Mac + Visual Studio for Windows and link the core classes between them.
Use GTK# for the whole project and compile multiple builds for each platforms.
Use Java for the whole project and compile multiple builds for each platforms.
For #2 and #3, I need an advice that which language is more suitable for me, considering the design of my application. I mean, which one has a better GUI building ability for my goal?
BTW GTK# uses different libraries for each platforms, so that should be an clutter for my core architecture, or not?!
Three years later and Javascript is now also a strong contender in this debate.
There are multiple options within the space.
https://electron.atom.io/
https://github.com/nwjs/nw.js/
And others
Even Microsoft has shipped Visual Studio Code, the cross platform version of their development environment, which is written in Javascript.
What is the Visual Studio Code editor built on
The benefits include utilizing the many available web libraries, and building/using your web development skills.
This sounds like a job for Xojo or something similar: http://www.xojo.com
Mac, Windows, Linux builds with easy GUI design and native apps. Custom UI easily done also, and you'd then have one code base for all three platforms. You can download and use the software for free to develop and test, only requires a license once you decide to build your app.
You can also conside Livecode
Livecode: http://livecode.com
For any platform except web, it is opensource and it includes mobile targets as well, if your code is flexible enough to not being C# or Java.
An option is to build the core logic in a compiled library using C# and GUI independence and then plug it to livecode, leaving the UI work for that tool.
"GTK# uses different libraries for each platforms", do you mean different rendering back ends (such as X11, Cairo)?
You only need to build your GTK# app once. However, you do have to bundle the GTK# runtime (which is different for Windows and Mac) with your app. Banshee is a good example you can follow.
Probably your best bet is to use Nevron Open Vision. It is a cross-platform, C# based User Interface Platform, that implements most of the controls you need to build enterprise-ready applications. It is the framework behind MyDraw (www.mydraw.com) - a professional drawing program similar to Visio. MyDraw is built completely with Nevron Open Vision and does not require any other third-party libraries. We mainly develop it under Windows and just compile it to Mac. Soon we are going to add support for Linux and WebAssembly hosts.
Microsoft just launched .NET MAUI, a cross-platform GUI framework that builds on Xamarian.forms.
As we consider what building device applications will look like in a unified .NET, we see many devices across multiple platforms used, from Android and iOS to Windows and macOS. To address this need we are excited to announce a new first-class UI framework for doing just that: .NET Multi-platform App UI, affectionately call .NET MAUI.
This seems to meet all of your requirements. They do not explicitly mention Linux in their article, but claim to support it in the description on the Github Repo.
It depends on the audience of the app: Consumer mass market or business/IT
If its mass market consumer facing
Electron or native UI, perhaps with shared non-UI code. Visual Studio Code was made with Electron, for example (last I checked). Google Flutter is a new entrant worth evaluating. Dropbox is Python (or used to be). It is a lot of work (a) getting Python packaged properly for smooth x-platform install, and (b) GUI work will take a long time. Sadly, for mass market consumer apps (not utilities for IT people but beautiful designs for the masses like Dropbox, Skype) you will be spending a ton of time getting the installation system to work and getting the app to look and feel appropriate. This is an extremely time consuming endeavour no matter what path you take.
Consumer: Java? I don't think Java is a great fit for consumer desktop although I could be wrong. There are some Java packaging systems that are leaner/all bundled in. I'd also say JVM software companies tend to go under (more on this later). FreeMind the free mind mapper, is a good example of what can be achieved in Java.
Consumer: .NET? Yes, for the Windows side. Then use something native for Mac and shared libraries for non-GUI code. There is ".NET Core" aka Mono but its not fully matured at this time for Mac. Mono has been around for over half a decade and I haven't seen it mature for a consumer app. Ask: How many .NET Core apps are in the Mac app store? I hope it gets better but as of this writing (2020) there's very few notable ones.
Business app or IT tool
If its a basic business app or utility where a basic UI is okay, I'd evaluate Xojo and/or LiveCode mainly for comparison sake. Xojo is fairly close to .NET. Google Flutter as well since it's up and coming. By the time you read this, Flutter may be the best choice.
B2B: Java? This is a pretty tried, tested and true solution for "heavy" enterprise apps. You might not have end-users love you given Java apps tend to eat up memory. But for enterprisey apps the main concern is that the very intense business logic will work. For IT tools, it depends. If it's a 3-screen utility program, avoid Java. If it's a complex ERP then Java is good. Remember to look around for different packaging tools to avoid consumer headaches with the JVM. Again, one Java desktop app I like is Freemind. It's a great example of making a reasonable desktop app in Java. I have used it in both Windows and Mac and it's great. You can also look at Kotlin or Groovy (for test cases) which compile to Java byte code.
B2B .NET? There is so much to unpack here. The key is, in my biased view, .NET Windows desktop development is about 2X-4X faster development time than Windows Java desktop development. From making the GUI, to better code completion, to faster compile times, to less packaging and install snags. That said, at the time of this writing the ".NET Core" or Mono are pretty thin for MacOS. I really, really hope this changes. But I've been waiting years for Mono or .NET Core to provide a full suite for MacOS without the limitations and it hasn't yet happened. If it's an enterprise app, you might be able to get away with using .NET Core for Mac. But please first build a basic .NET Core "hello world" app with all the control/libraries you want to use. Then try building an installer for it on MacOS, and find someone random with a Mac to see if it actually installs and runs. You may find you're struggling in this area today (although I hope it gets better, it hasn't for years).
Overall Notes on Cross Platform
If this is a smaller app which doesn't need a fantastic UX and super-deep OS integration, then I'd consider Xojo or LiveCode, perhaps for the UX elements. Like #merlucin said, you can write the core logic in something shared- perhaps C#, python, etc.
Here's why- Xojo and LiveCode have been around for 10 years now. They are more about keeping things consistent. Whereas I find .NET and QT changes all the time. You have a lot of costs of keeping up with the Joneses and maintaining installers. So for a small app or utility- an XML editor, IT helper tool, Xojo or perhaps LiveCode will help you get there sooner.
When you hit the build button on Xojo, for example, it literally makes 3 executable files for Windows, Mac and Linux. Compare that to the madness of packaging a cross platform Python app, or even packaging a .NET app for Windows, to be honest.
The tradeoff is these tools- Xojo and LiveCode often end to be missing a few critical things you need, requiring a bit of a hack. You can read around their forums. Xojo is a bit like .NET although LiveCode is a different programming paradigm entirely based on "stacks".
Keep in mind developer happiness too. Many developers wont want to code in Xojo or LiveCode because they are lesser known languages. So ensure you get buy-in. What happens if you get laid off and have 5 years of experience in Xojo? Hmm.
In your evaluation, no matter what you choose-- you must compile a basic GUI app in the platform you're evaluating and get 3 people to install it correctly on a Mac. You'll be shocked at the libraries and madness needed. Especially if you're a web developer, you'd see that just maintaining installers is a ton of work across 3 platforms. Never mind GUI consistency.
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I am starting to learn to program in C# and I was wondering what is currently the best compiler and what IDEs have built-in C# compilers. I am 11 years old and starting to learn to program and need to choose a compiler.
I know about the MS Visual Express ones, but I want to know what are there good and bad things about it.
Also, is there a way that I can download Visual C# Express Offline? I can't use the web installer.
It sounds like your question is more like, "which IDE should I learn with?".
I would suggest MS Express editions for C, C++, and C#. It's high quality, free, has an intuitive interface, and has a very large community for support.
C# / .NET
Visual C# Express 2010 should give you everything you need to learn to program in C#.
If you really want to learn, especially on your own, you'll need interesting projects.
I don't think you should overlook doing some Windows Phone 7 Development to get familiar with the language and libraries in a fairly constrained environment.
If your high school allows it, see if you can set yourself up on DreamSpark.com and get yourself the XNA stuff, which (last time I checked) included a free membership that will allow you to develop stuff for the Xbox 360.
Microsoft's Coding4Fun blog might also be inspiring, although it seems to me that a lot of the projects are so esoteric that they probably won't teach very much, nor will they be interesting unless you have that specific piece of hardware.
C
Learning C is probably best done on a Unix-like environment as this is where the language has its origins. A modern GNU/Linux distribution will give you everything you need (you may have to install the development packages yourself) which is basically:
a text editor (choose one; many like Emacs, Vim and Scite)
a C compiler (GCC)
a debugger (GDB)
Any distribution should have packages for these available.
Challenges
Try solving the problems from Project Euler in whatever languages you are trying to learn. Solving these will help you think analytically as well as teach you language constructs and certain library features. Ask your mathematics teacher for help if you are stuck with the maths side of those problems.
Best of luck!
I have found Compilr which is a online IDE and is free for 3 projects and includes a number of langues.
My sugestion is Mono
From Wikipedia:
Mono is a free and open source project led by Xamarin (formerly by Novell and originally by Ximian) to create an Ecma standard-compliant, .NET Framework-compatible set of tools including, among others, a C# compiler and a Common Language Runtime.
The stated purpose of Mono is not only to be able to run Microsoft .NET applications cross-platform, but also to bring better development tools to Linux developers.[4] Mono can be run on many software systems including Android, most Linux distributions, BSD, OS X, Windows, Solaris, and even some game consoles such as PlayStation 3, Wii, and Xbox 360.
The logo of Mono is a stylized monkey's face, mono being Spanish for monkey.
for c definitely go for ICC
C# I might guess you go for VS 2010
I would say get yourself a copy of linux and gcc. Ubuntu is a nice way to get going.
You're talking about three different languages. C++ is an expanded version of C and although it is its own language completely, C++ compilers can also compile C code.
If you're looking to learn programming I recommend C# and Visual C# 2010 Express edition.
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Scenario
I have recently graduated from university with a degree in Computer Science.
My degree mainly focused on C#.
I want to learn more and get better at what I do.
I notice a lot of companies always want their developers to know and use 3rd party tools.
Question
If I was developing C# Windows Forms applications, what 3rd party tools/libraries/controls etc. would be of use to me and for what reason?
The answer to this question depends on how you define "3rd party tools". I usually take that to mean products from companies other than MS but excluding free open source software. When it comes to 3rd party products (for-profit) I cannot think of any common products that I've used or been asked to learn over the last decade that I've been doing .Net development. Most MS shops I've worked with turn to MS solutions (for good or ill depending on your personal view).
That said, in recent years the number and quality of the various FOSS solutions out there has risen dramatically. I use the following whenever I can:
Logging: log4net
Inversion of Control Container (plus more): Castle Windsor
ORM: NHibernate
Unit Testing: NUnit
Mocks for unit testing: Rhino Mocks
For most of these projects there are many other options, these are just my current favorites. Learn to use these (and WHY they are needed) and you'll be many steps above the average .Net developer (sad but all to true).
The DevExpress and Telerik controls are pretty popular, but not free.
Some 3rd party .Net component providers that I've seen used in companies most often:
Telerik
Infragistics
They are not free. These kinds of providers offer large libraries of controls that you'd pick from to achieve your specific goals.
Many good suggestions here, I would also add a few other categories of tools:
Software configuration management/version control: CVS, Subversion, Git/Mercurial/Bazaar, Perforce, etc. Good use of SCM is essential for professional software development.
Issue tracking: Bugzilla, Trac, FogBugz, etc. I would also consider an issue tracking system to be a critical piece of software.
Documentation: Like it or not, it becomes very handy to know your way around Microsoft Word. Knowing how to manipulate styles, headings, numberings, cross-references, etc. can make your life a lot easier when writing documentation.
You'd probably want to have a look at Silverlight. It's a Microsoft alternative to Flash and uses C#. WPF are also something to look at for interfacing.
It might also be worthwhile looking at MOSS.
I've always liked the Xceed controls. In a lot of cases you could always build your own controls. The biggest advantage to using some of these packages is that it saves you the time and they have also been well tested (if not by the company then by the people that are using them).
I've used a couple of different packages over the years and found that if you can use one it's not that hard to use another. The biggest thing is knowing what is available out there so you don't spend two weeks building something that you could have just paid a few hundred dollars for.
You should know about resharper (helper for VS)
Crystal reports - for reports,
Some Grid tools (google it, there are many - I wouldn't bother to learn until need one)
and study advanced topics like: WCF, WPF
Cruise control or other building tool, bugnet or trac - bug management tools...
And of course - AQtime or other Profiling tools.
.NET Reflector
Hawkeye - The .Net Runtime Object Editor
Infragistics
I'd throw mono in there as well. Since you're looking to give yourself an advantage over other developers and improve your value to companies - having cross platform experience is advantageous as well.
There are a lot of 3rd party controls that will help you achieve more in less time. But I don't think many of them will really improve your coding skills (calling someone else to do all the work doesn't teach you much about how to actually do thise things yourself, but familiarity with them and the ability to learn new libraries is a good skill to practice)
Resharper is good for improving your coding skills (code analysis), coding style (autoformatting), and it's a great refactoring tool. It's expensive, though.
Microsoft do some free code analysis tools for Visual Studio (FXCop for code analysis, and there is also a Static Analysis addin) which will help improve your code quality.
AtomineerUtils (my own addin) encourages excellence in documentation and generally improves your code quality (by encouraging good naming style, etc)
Focus more on the tools used in the software development process. Enterprise Architect is used for designing applications from a high level. Once you design you application's business classes you can generate your classes' skeletons. You will be responsible for you code implementation once the class structure has been created.
For implementation purposes look at several C# platforms mentioned earlier. You want to focus Microsoft's WPF, WCF, WF. WPF is ok but it can not be used prior to .net 3.0 so check your client's requirements. I'm working on a project that targets the .net 2.0 because of restrictions by the client so the applicaiton was designed in WinForms. Silverlight is an option as well.
In addition, read up on design patterns as this will help you avoid creating high maintenance applications. A good book is Design Patterns in C#.
For testing look at the Visual Studio TFS system or third party programs like NUnit. You can google NUnit. This will help you ensure that your code does what you intended it to do on a granular scale.
Also, take a look at some of the source control software avaialbel like Subversion, Rational ClearCase, Visual SourceSafe. For large projects with multiple developers you'll need a source control tool that has multiple branches so that each developer has his or her own sandbox within the source control system.
I'm a big proponent of ComponentOne and use it in my new applications regularly. I find that if you're proficient in .NET winforms in general, C1 are very easy to pick up on and usually do what you want with little effort.
A couple people mentioned Telerik. I demoed it fairly extensively and found them to be a bit more complicated because they contain a ton of configuration options for look and feel. Awesome if you're some sort of graphic designer, but unless you're building the next Windows Media Player, I think it's overkill. The learning curve for the theming seemed a bit much for what I was trying to accomplish.
C1 and Telerik both run about $1000 to $1300 depending on what license you get.
You should also check out the Krypton toolkit. It free and has a lot of nice controls.
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In looking at the use of C# in a ISV setting, I'm wondering what prominent C# based desktop apps are out there? I can think of only Paint .NET.
Is C# a good idea for an ISV, or should one stick to more native environments like Delphi or even QT?
Of course any experienced based advise or feedback would be appreciated.
Yes, C# can be used quite effectivly to build applications. In regards what applciations are out there, what are you looking for? Big apps, little apps?
I know of a big app that is built on the .NET framework (unsure if C# or VB) and that is Quickbooks.
Developing a Desktop applications in C# is great. Its not just for Web Apps.
WinForms are going to save you huge amounts of time. It really is a first class citizen when it comes to desktop windows development. If interop is a problem you can always use P/Invoke and COM object wrapping that VS does for you.
Done right, it will be a breeze to maintain and update when the client changes their mind on what they want.
Yes, the framework needs to be on the machine, But this shouldn't be a problem if they have ever used windows update. Nowadays what language doesn't come with a run time library. In VS you can create simple installers that include the runtime.
Of course if your gonna deploy to Linux and mono, your mileage may very.
PlasticSCM
If you can control the system requirements for your application, C# is fine. Some end users still (even though we're nearly in 2009 now) object to a 40MB runtime for some reason, so if you're looking to deploy an application commercially, that may be an issue for you. In a corporate setting, though, where there is some standardization of software on users' computers, this is probably not a problem.
Delphi and QT specifically are both problems. Delphi is effectively a dead language. Companies that are using it these days are, for the most part, porting their code away from it as fast as they can (job boards seem to be full of Delphi-to-C# migration jobs these days). You may like QT, but that moves almost as slowly as Delphi in the Windows world, so I would never consider it to be a real option.
More:
Business Plan Pro
Rescue Time client
Sony Vegas
Sql Management Studio
VS 2010 (much more so than VS 200x)
NASA's World Wind
BabySmash
Windows Live Writer
Microsoft Office Accounting
Fiddler 2
Windows Mobile Device Center
AdiIRC
Jetbrains dotTrace
Lots of Lenovo utilities
Planbook
These are just the ones installed on my PC...
I think that Microsoft Expression Blend/Studio is written in C#
Anything done for Robotics Studio, any XNA game (quite a few commerical ones are coming out now)
I don't see why you would not use C# as an ISV. The problem is ensuring that your target market has the .NET framework. If you are using 3.5, you can build a mini version into your distribution though this increases the file sizes for downloads of course.
Some supplemental information to think about:
One of the typical points against doing desktop applications the distribution model is a lot more difficult to manage. With web apps, if you have a large user base, you can do an update and instantly have your entire user base running on the latest version.
With traditional desktop apps, you'd have to send out an .msi or build something yourself.
However, with ClickOnce and the Updater Application Block (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms978574.aspx), it's so easy to build intelligent updating into your application that it might play very nicely into an ISV plan.
Even though VS 2008/WPF is shrinking the gap, it's typically much faster to develop client applications in the WinForms space that on the web, so I think it's a very viable approach.
I believe TimeSnapper is written in C#
I have worked for an ISV before that used Delphi and it was excellent for their needs. It still produces great native applications and although dieing it is certainly not dead (yet). Until recently I would have recommened Delphi over c# for desktop applications as I had performance and footprint consderations but as .net can now be considered ubiquitous and that the platform is now maturing my opinoin would probably go with c# (over Delphi).
If you need to consider employees, you will find that there are fewer Delphi developers around that c# ones. So you may struggle to entice good devleopers in as you are using that.
That said Delphi is looking exciting again with the Delphi prism VS plugin.
Just as an aside did you know that the c# compiler is written in c++? Delphi was written in Delphi from v1.0
Windows Media Centre is powered by .NET.
I believe that MS use C# to build many of their apps both Windows and Web. At this time, C# is a great language to go with because of the flexibility of the language/framework.
The zune software (v2 and up) is written in c#. Oh, and Sage Timberline Office is written in .net (mostly).
Although it's a developer tool, the excellent open source IDE SharpDevelop was built in C#. I've also worked on another which (despite being semi-commercially-available) I'm not at liberty to divulge. (Very vertical market.)
I'm a huge fan of the C#/WinForms combination, and can't see why you wouldn't go that route if your developers are already familiar with C# and you want to get into the desktop space.
A very prominent example for a commercialy successful application would be Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 itself.
If you are looking into building a client or server application for the Windows ecosystem .Net with C# is an absolut valid choice. You'll get a very rich framework, a great third-party-app ecosystem and a huge community.
If you need a minimal memory footprint for your application or are very hardware centric then C++ maybe an option.
If you want to target the UNIX/LINUX or Apple platforms you should be looking in frameworks more native for the respective platform, though you can get a certain degree of interoperability with the Mono project (But I am not up to date on how complete their implementation of .Net currently is).
I believe the matrox graphics card configuration utilities are using the .net-framework.
I'm still just a student, but for what it's worth (and from other answers preceding mine), there seem to be quite a few apps in C#.
I'd advise working through the book Head First C# (Amazon link). This book will give you a pretty solid idea of what you can do with the language.
=-MDP-=
Creative Docs .NET is a very nice example of C# application.
Microsoft's World Wide Telescope software is written in c#
Who are your target users? Their needs will dictate your choice of language. C# and VB.NET are good general purpose langs, but if you are targeting Mac or *nix, you may want something like C++.
If you're looking for a way to get started quickly, I recently published DesktopBootstrap, which is my attempt to factor out the elements you'll need to get started.
Hope that helps!
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I maintain an old PC-only application written in Delphi 7. Although Delphi has served me very well in the past I now only use it for this one application and find my skills with the language diminishing. Its syntax is too different from my 'day job' languages of Java/Ruby so it takes me longer to get into the groove of writing new code, plus it is so old I have not used many interfaces so the code is not managed which seems ancient to me now!
Many of my users are moving to Vista which may run the app in compatibility mode or may have GPF problems depending on how their PC is configured by their IT department, so I have to do some maintenance on the application. I'm wondering if I should jump to a more familiar stack.
Is there an automated tool that will do the legwork of converting the code base to C#, leaving me to concentrate on the conversion on any non-standard components? I'm using an embedded database component called AbsoluteDatabase which is BDE compatible and using standard SQL throughout, and a native Delphi HTML browser component which can be swapped out with something from the Microsoft world.
How good are these conversion tools?
I am not aware of any automated tools for making that conversion. Personally I would suggest you stick with Delphi, maybe just upgrade to a new version. I have seen a couple code DOM's that attempt to convert from Delphi to C#, but that doesn't address the library issue.
CodeGear (formally Borland) has a tool for going from C# to Delphi that works OK. I would assume the tools that go the other direction will work the same (requiring a lot of editing). Here is a Swedish tool that works on the same CodeDOM principle to go from Delphi to C# (and a number of other languages). There are others, I just can't find them right now.
Another option would be to upgrade to a more resent version of Delphi for .NET and port your code to .NET that way. Once you get it working in Delphi for .NET (which will be pretty easy, except for the embedded DB, unless they have a .NET version) you can use .NET Reflector and File Disassembler reverse the IL to C#. You will still be using the VCL, but you can use C# instead of Object pascal.
Another similar solution would be to port it to Oxygene by RemObjects. I believe they have a Delphi Win32 migration path to WinForms. Then use .NET Reflector and File Disassembler reverse the IL to C#.
In short, no easy answers. Language migration is easier then library migration. A lot of it depends on what 3rd party components you used (beyond AbsoluteDatabase) and if you made any Windows API calls directly in your application.
Another completely different option would be too look for an off shore team to maintain the application. They can probably do so cheaply. You could find someone domestically, but it would cost you more no doubt (although with the sagging dollar and poor job market you never know . . . )
Good luck!
There has been a scientific report of a successfull transformation of a 1.5 million line Delphi Project to C# by John Brant. He wrote a Delphi parser, a C# generator and lots of transformation rules on the AST. Gradually extending the set of rules, doing a daily build, lots of unit tests, and some rewriting of difficult Delphi parts allowed him with a team of 4, among which some of the original developers, with deep Delphi & C# knowledge, to migrate the software in 18 months. John Brant being the original developer of the refactoring browser and the SmaCC compiler construction kit, you are unlikely to be able to go that fast
Many of my users are moving to Vista
which may run the app in compatibility
mode or may have GPF problems
depending on how their PC is
configured by their IT department, so
I have to do some maintenance on the
application. I'm wondering if I should
jump to a more familiar stack.
Unless you are doing something non standard, D7 applications should run fine in Vista.
As for conversion to C#, I would think that most conversion tools would be a waste of time. A better approach may be to rewrite the application from scratch.
There is no easy answer, but bear in mind that the Delphi.net variant of the language targets the .net runtime, and that different languages on .net can interoperate closely.
You could try getting it to compile in Delphi.Net, factoring into different assemblies and then converting the assemblies by hand one by one. Reflector could help be reverse-engineering compiled code into a skeleton of C# code - equivalent but without comments, internal variable names etc.
On the other hand, Delphi.net may be good enough (TM) for this project.
But unless you have a good test suite (I'm guessing probably not, given the state of the art in Delphi 7) you're going to introduce bugs.