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I am learning the language c. After c I will probably move onto objective c and develop some iPhone applications. Then I was thinking about learning c# and xna.
How long do you guys think it will take before I can develop a pretty decent hitting or roleplay game for the xbox?
My friend is also learning game design s I will have a game designer and my other friend is going to learn code like me.
How long do you guys think it will take before we can develop a game like I said .
Any tips on books or? What kind of game engine we hould use? Anything at all so we can stratup and learn that you know of.
It depends on so many things that it's impossible to say. One tip is though that start small and finish your projects. It's easy to start too big projects that never gets finished.
12 is the right age to start - most of the good programmers I know started out young. I look out for it on CVs when hiring.
I started on a Spectrum 128k writing in BASIC.
A fully fledged game is a lofty goal, a worthy one, but one a fully fledged professional would struggle to attain.
I'd start with a simple game - a Tetris or Breakout clone, or maybe even something text based. Something simple will be better for learning the basics. You're learning the language as you go, so expect:
It will often be slow - you will regularly have problems that it takes a while to figure out. It's good that you have a friend leaning the same thing.
The code you wrote at the start will look rubbish later - be prepared to re-write as you get better. You'll start out making naive mistakes, but you learn from them.
That second point applies even to the best professionals when working with something new. No one gets everything right first time and you learn more from mistakes than successes.
And have fun!
Glad to see that you are enjoying programming. I think there will be a lot of different answers to this question ("Should I do C or not?") But I think its a good thing that you start by writing code in C. You will learn a lot of basic stuff that you might have passed if only going for the XNA framework right away.
BUT! Don't wait to long. The XNA framework is quite powerful and it makes it very easy to get started. I think you should ask yourself (including your friends) "what you think is the most fun part of developing a game?"
Is it the game design? graphical programming? just programming? making graphics?
Perhaps that answer will give you a hint about what to focus on.
Cause private projects should be about having fun.
This entirely depends on your talent and passion for the work.
Good to see some people getting enthusiastic about programming - and better still playing about with C. Starting out with C, even if it's to do basic "Hello World" style programmes, will give you a good basic understanding of concepts like memory management etc.
But as others have said - don't wait too long to jump over to C# and XNA: yes the frameworks are quite big and scary, but you'll be amazed at how quickly you can get things done once you get a basic grasp of the language.
A few points I'd like to point across:
Firstly, do not be discouraged or disheartened when something doesn't work, or when something breaks, or if you receive negative feedback (the proverbial "it sucks" review). If you are confident in your idea and more importantly, if you are enjoying it, keep going.
Don't expect to be producing awesome graphics and FPS style games from day one: but don't let that worry you. For big budget games, the "media" side (3D models, artwork, audio) are at least a big a job as the actual game programming, if not more.
Start with a good idea and be confident in it. Don't worry about graphics: if the game is good people will enjoy it. Look at the vast majority of "market place" games (iPhone, Android Marketplace, XBox, Facebook): they all have fairly basic graphics but are based on good solid concepts. And some of them make money, lots of it.
If you stop enjoying a particular task / project, don't worry about parking it for a while and moving on. More often than not you'll have an "eureka moment" (probably at 3am if you are like me) and come back to it with renewed enthusiasm.
RPG Maker is something cool you can try out. It'll let you make RPGs without programming, which will give you an idea of how games are designed. It'll also be easier to start on a PC than an xbox if you're learning.
I have a mate who is a game developer, working on state of the art games like "Call of Duty". Im not sure if the language is as important as learning the concepts and being active in the community.
My friend made it big by developing content for existing games and getting known that way. Its really hard to made a game that can compete these days but its not impossible. As Keith mentioned its important to start simple and learn the basics but its also equally as important to contribute online and to surround yourself with like minded people. That is how you will make your first break in, and thats all you need.
I have been a programmer for years now and I would say that I learnt 90% of what I know from others or online not from reading books. Books are great for reference. Take what you learn and apply it.
Im sure if you work hard and contributte online you will make it.
Good Luck!
This might be able to help you while you learn XNA and C#. I am trying to spread the word about my free open-source project called 'XNA Debug Terminal'. It creates a display on top of your game and allows you to look up values, invoke methods, or even watch values change in real-time while your game is running. I'm sure this could be of some help to you in learning what is going on in your game at various points. The website can be found here:
http://www.protohacks.net/xna_debug_terminal
If you like it, please tell other people. I, myself, have found it quite helpful in my own projects. The website tells you all you need to know about it.
Here's some good advice: LEARN to code in C (i.e. read a book on it or whatever) but thats as far as you should go with C. Learning C teaches you things you'll never learn in another language, and it helps you understand things you wouldn't fully understand without learning it, but it's not gonna be useful to you for much longer.
C++ is taking over C in the game world quickly (in fact, you could get away with saying that it already happened), and I have a feeling that we may see C# become a big player in the game world too, as computers are getting faster.
But like I said -- learn C, then move to C# or java (I'd go with C# for sure), and then pick up on XNA.
Also, when learning c#, look into the book, "Head First C#." It's a good one, and it does quite a bit of stuff with gaming.
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I love programming languages and trying to think of logical solutions to problems. A lot I have been reading on C# and the underworkings of WPF. (Also Python and PyQt) In all my college courses in programming, I learn absolutely nothing (What a variable is, what an array is, NOT what stack and heap are, NOT what CLR/JVM actually does) I feel I have a very good grasp on the basics and a decent grasp on the more substantial topics.
I have been trying to make my own C#/WPF app that is governed by input sensors and output relays for home/shop automation.
I am having trouble to just do certain things. For example. make a user control to be used by a central control that also controls another user control while having a database layer.
I would really like to learn how to structure logically programs and what best design is (for example, I hate having a program filled with if/else statements). The problem is, the books I find only have basic examples that don't really deepen my overall undestanding of how all the pieces need to work together.
How do I start to do things?
You find an open-source (or at least "source available at no cost" -- not quite the same thing, but the difference should only matter if you plan to redistribute your results) project that does "something like" (maybe "vaguely" like;-) what you're trying to do, and is coded in a language that you know or want to learn.
You duplicate the source tree for that project to your machine and put the duplicate under a version control system (svn, hg, git, bazaar -- whatever -- there's a bazillion good, free ones) quite independendently from any VCS it might have been in originally -- the point is being able to save your edits all the time, and revert them easily if and when you make mistakes.
Then you start hacking, looking things up in docs and forums, asking on SO, etc, as needed;-).
There is no "one shoe fits all" solution in programming world. But i do recommend you a book. Hope you like it.
Head First Design Patterns
(O'Reilly)
Honestly... truly... the best answer? Do stuff.
I learned a lot in school. Tons. But as you said, there is a level that schools don't touch. I've got a deeper understanding in my 2 months of programming/data analyst than I got in 2 years getting my AA in programming.
Realize one thing: School is there to teach you a wide range of things - to a minimum level. You won't become an expert from school alone (There are exceptions... as with any rule).
How have I actually started to understand stuff? Programming. Boss gave me a program task and I ran with it.
Personally, I've really liked Apress books. C# 2008 Illustrated (or the soon to be released 2010) has proved invaluable to me. I actually read 95% of the book, double checked examples... and most importantly... put them into practice in my horrible first programming task. I've re-factored at-least 5 times already, and already am seeing things that will make me do it again.
I don't know if you have a job... or a hobby... an open source program you'd like to help with... or a task you'd like to automate. Pick something, learn it inside out, then program it.
Personally, again... I'd say joining an already running open-source project is too much. I tried a few times and it was too much for me. To many things I didn't understand. I plan to try again once I get a little better, but I don't plan on hanging out on NBA courts when I can barely dribble the ball myself... if ya know what I mean.
How do I start to do things?
Find a problem that needs solving and writing a program to do it. It doesn't have to pretty or efficient. The program just needs to work. As you work with the program you'll begin to learn better techniques for accomplishing the task you set for yourself. Google and SO will be your friends and help you learn those better techniques.
As other have said, jumping straight into controlling hardware with C# may not be a simple task for your first program.
Good luck.
Read Martin Fowler's book Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code.
Martin Fowler gives you the building blocks to think about high level design decisions by introducing you to all the low level decisions you may or may not be aware that you are making. He also gives a good introductions to the concept of code smells.
Look at design principles like DRY Do Not Repeat Yourself, KISS Keep It Simple Stupid, and keep it consistent(Pet Peeve).
More design principles here
Design Principles.
Practice these principles as often as possible especially in your course work and outside projects..
Get involved in open source
Hard to do but probably will help you the most especially when combined with the first two.
Personal Experience feel free to skip.
After three years of tough undergrad I realized I could solve some really complex proofs but I didn't know how to write anything but spaghetti code. The longest projects I had were 5 months long which was enough time for it really to catch up with me. I was usally very productive for the first 2-3 months but was crawling along from the code debt by month 4. At this point I had the same realization you did.
Everyone says the best way to learn was to practice but I didn't know how to practice.
I realized that the problem with thinking about design was I couldn't move one design into another. A professor mentioned Martin Fowler's book Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code and that has made all the difference.
I just learned the basics of c++ and c#,just the simple basics of the language.And I want to pursue game programming can anyone please tell me where to start off I read somewhere that Direct-X is used for game programming and I downloaded it from Microsoft's website but I just didn't understood it.From where did you people started your game programming when you were just beginners or do I need to have a deep knowledge about the language or can I just start now, please suggest me.And I am in the first semester of my cs undergraduate degree.
Start coding now. You won't get deep knowledge without, well, coding! I'd highly recommend XNA. XNA is basically a .NET wrapper for DirectX. It is very clean and well thought out (This means C# of course).
Have fun!
From reading your comments to the original question, it would seem that you have fallen into the trap of setting your sights far too high. The game 'World of Goo' did not happen overnight. It took a long time using lots of third party libraries to do the video/audio/physics/gameplay elements and a very good working knowledge of programming in general and an understanding of the restrictions doing a game often imposes.
Now, this may seem like a negative response but the point is it is better to achieve something small than to fail at something big. Failure generally puts people off doing what they really want to do.
Byron Whitlock's advice of "start coding now" is the best advice. But, start off with something simple: a text based version of Guess the Colours for example, then some easy, non-realtime graphics like Othello / Reversi / Sliding puzzles then try something realtime like Tetris and then branch out into physics, audio, 3D and so on.
The key to becoming a great programmer is to get code finished and working (shipping is a feature!), learn from the code - see if there are better ways to do stuff and so on. Start small, finish some programs, get a morale boost, firm up your foundations and gradually add complexity from there.
Introduction to Game Programming in C++ is a good start.
Introduction to Game Programming with
C++ explores the world of game
development with a focus on C++. This
book begins with an explanation of the
basics of mathematics as it relates to
game programming, covers the
fundamentals of C++, and describes a
number of algorithms commonly used in
games. In addition, it discusses
several libraries that can help you
manage graphics, add audio, and create
installation software so you can get
started on the path to making both 2D
and 3D games.
If you want to start with C#, which is recommended for beginners, you can use XNA, which is quite simple to learn, and a good book is Beginning XNA 2.0 Game Programming: From Novice to Professional
Would you like to create your own
games, but never have the time to dig
into the details of multimedia
programming? Now you don’t have to!
XNA makes it simple to create your own
games, which will run on your PC and
Xbox 360 console. Even if you don’t
know how to program at all, Beginning
XNA 2.0 Game Programming: From Novice
to Professional will teach you the
basics of C# 2005 programming along
the way. Don’t get overwhelmed with
details you don’t need to know— just
learn what you need to start creating
your own games right now!
The fast–paced introduction to XNA and
the C# language provides professional
developers a quick-start guide to
creating a commercial product using
XNA, as well as offering home
enthusiasts or hobbyists everything
they need to begin putting together
games in their spare time. You’ll
discover and understand all the key
concepts required to create smooth,
professional–looking results in a
range of gaming genres. Every reader
will come away with a firm foundation
onto which they can build more
advanced ideas.
I would recommend getting started with XNA, if you know a little C# it is an excellent way to get into game development and learn some important concepts that will help you out with other libraries. creators.xna.com There are several videos and tutorials to walk through, and it is all free when programming for the pc.
Maybe
www.gamedev.net is the best site of resources of game programming
I do not suggest XNA for learning how to do game programming. It hides many concepts that you need to have for a solid understanding of how it works from the inside.
First, learn thoroughly how to program in C++ and to understand how the Component Object Model (COM) works since this is what you will need to use in order to call the different methods in the DirectX SDK. Once this is done, learn how to create a window with C++ in Win32. After, find yourself some books on Direct3D for DirectX 9 SDK, game engines and architecture, multithreaded applications and design patterns. I would suggest DirectX 9 Graphics The Definitive Guide to Direct3D from Alan Thorn for Direct3D. This book is not a definitive guide, but rather a very good introduction to gain a solid base. Of course the book is a bit old, but the concepts remain very similar and it will be a good reference book for later on (plus it is cheap.. your budget might be tight with everything you have to pay for university :P) . Also, look at the documentation and samples from the SDK. Oh and before I forget, you will need some notions in maths (linear and vector algebra comes to mind)!
I suggest try using Silverlight as your game platform.
Check out this site http://dobbschallenge2.com/. It has a full functioning 2D platform game engine with source code and images. You can learn how parallax scrolling works, etc.
This way you can modify the game source code and slowly learn how it works. The game engine is quite simple yet the game is fun and includes awesome soundtrack :)
Check out the torque engine. It's inexpensive and takes care of a lot of the grunt work of making your game so that you can focus on making it fun. It's inexpensive and you can code in C#.
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I'm looking for a personal project. One of the sort that "every programmer"* makes. The reasoning is that most developers have a tendency to work on personal projects that have particular traits interesting to all other developers. Software like:
Bug trackers (made one)
CMS (made one)
Blog Engines (Haven't made one; don't want to)
UI 'libraries' and graphics 'engines' (often for the game development crowd)
Password management programs
I'm looking to make something
fun
interesting
not particularly challenging (my work is difficult - or obscure enough)
doesn't have to be original by any means
preferably an application (ie. not a website)
not a hardcore learning experience, this is entirely for fun away from work
That being said, I find that the terms 'interesting' and 'challenging' don't necessarily carry the same meaning for developers as they do for other people (and often-times are interchangeable - I'm not looking for something easy or trivial). Ditto with the 'learning' part, I like and want to solve problems, but I'm not going to be getting into design methodologies or learning entirely new APIs and Languages to do this.
I ask because I think that certain projects, or types of projects, appeal to developers for particular reasons. I don't claim to know what those reasons are, nor do I care, but I do understand that they exist and that being a developer, there is a strong likelihood that the projects that are suggested will appeal to me.
If it helps, my background or preferred medium, without reciting my resume, is c# development for windows/tablet pcs; xna; db design/programming;
*by "every", I mean, "lots of".
You have XNA experience, and DB experience.
Develop a visualization tool for databases which is visually attractive and makes mining data easier.
This can start as a simple browsing tool and eventually grow to a full-fledged DB management application.
If you haven't written one, knocking together an implementation of Conway's Game of Life is always an interesting challenge. It's also the sort of project that once you get it done leads to seemingly endless tinkering ("I'll just add one more feature...")
Graphics are always fun to play around with, try writing a program to draw a Sierpiński triangle. It's a fairly simple fractal to generate. I once made a screensaver that drew them in random places and colors on the screen.
If you are looking for something more practical, try writing an email or RSS client. Learning to interact with SMTP/POP3 at low level is pretty interesting. Same thing with RSS, it will expose you to network, GUI, and XML design at a minimum.
Maybe write a compiler? I think every artist/craftsman should, at some point, learn how to build the tools of their art or craft.
Write a character generator for the pen-and-paper rpg of your choice.
It should be able to be used in 2 modes: Build-A-Character (which will let you build a character from scratch) and Generate-An-NPC (which, given some guidelines, will generate a decent NPC).
This is actually a project I've been working on for a while, and I've found it fun. YMMV, especially if you don't game regularly.
Edit - figured I'd give some reasons I find it fun.
It's something I and my friends will actually use
It helps me understand the game better, knowing what decisions make a good character
There's some (limited) AI in the random character generation(mainly a simple decision tree with some random jumps)
It's overall fairly simple, a reasonable project for a one-man development team.
I'm looking for a personal project. One of the sort that "every programmer"* makes.
How about writing your own scripting language interpreter?
That's a very common thing to do, which is usually not only a highly educational experience, but also fun and interesting.
Once you are finished with something working, you'll start thinking completely differently about programming, it will change your way of thinking!
A Sudoku game (or Connect Four, Clue, etc.).
Something that relies mostly on logic, and not artificial intelligence (like chess).
How about a ray tracer? It can be very simple if you do everything by brute force.
They are very fun to write and can lead to many interesting problems. Writing a ray tracer meets all your criteria =)
Each and every developer is different. About three years ago I asked exactly your question on some other site. It brought nothing because we all have different interests.
Maybe to make a website with focus on what you like? Like a small community within a university or your other fellows?
In order to learn Ruby, I just recently made a mini DSL/XML generator for a custom XML based language I use in a program of mine. I simply turn some real text into its XML representation. It was just a fun little side project that didn't provide much benefit in the long run but helped me to learn the language.
So... I suggest trying to create a DSL. The experience could actually prove invaluable as DSL's are pretty damn useful.
Write a 3D environment populated by artificially intelligent virtual beings, implemented on a public server, that we can all access using a WPF-based client.
Personally 'interesting' strongly overlaps 'difficult', so I'm kind of at a loss ...
... but perhaps you should take a non-programming interest you may have and try to solve a simple problem in that space.
A friend of mine once built a model railway database so people could track the trains they had. He was trying to sell it, that didn't go so well, but it was simple and fun.
Why not rolling your own
Web MVC framework or
Web templating system or
Persistence framework (+1 if you make an OR-mapper) or
Interceptor-based aspect-oriented framework
But oh, those were the sins of early 2000's.
Something cloudish then? :)
I had fun programming an audio player (like winamp / WMP) to learn .NET before I started my current job. There are free libraries to read MP3 files (and other audio formats), so that gets the complicated part out of the way ;)
An audio player is not too complicated and is good for learning threads, UI, and working with the file system.
I've always had fun trying to play with compilers/interpreters. I started out making pathetic attempts at my own Javascript interactive shell (I had no prior experience or knowledge of compilers/interpreters and just tried to wing it). And now I'm about to start working on writing my own lexer/parser from scratch.
Personally, I find compilers and interpreters interesting. You can use them, or their components as a start of other project ideas too if you wanted. Also, you can play with them in any language of your choice, so it might not be a bad side project if you want to learn or use a new language and aren't sure what to focus on to do it.
I've always enjoyed writing a little physics simulator or the canonical mandlebrot / julia set generator (parallel extensions anyone :)
Some kind of GPS tracker? I never made one but I believe that of lot of devs do.
Write an touch screen game for a Windows mobile device that competes with the iPhone. Maybe like,'Squash the Bug' or something. Chicks dig that kind of stuff.
Search for a good flash puzzle game and implement a solver for it :)
Personally, it based on your own preferences. For me, it was a grade book program. Since I always had teacher friends, they always wanted me to update it. So I first wrote it in Pascal, then wanted to learn C, so I wrote a C version, then a C++ version and so on.
My daughter was playing basketball, so I wanted to keep score and I had a PocketPC at the time, so I wrote a little app for it.
My $.02
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I am not that good at programming. I finished my masters degree in electronics. I want to learn C#, the .NET Framework, and SQL. How much time do you think it would take (if I have 5 hours a day to devote to it)? Also, what order do I learn them in? I have Visual Web Developer 2008, is that enough to begin?
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I should have specified that I wish to make a career out .NET Development. I'd like to give myself 2 months to get the 'basics' down. As a developer, what is expected out of you in IT companies? What skillset do they require and what are the responsibilities as a junior or mid-level developer? I don't have any industry experience, will I be able to get a feel of the job duties while at home?
That's like asking how long it would take to learn French:
1 day to learn what it is
1 week to learn it to an infant/elementary level
1 year to be considered a beginner by professionals
Several years to be considered an experienced professional
Plus there's "deep" knowledge of those subjects which a mere mortal such as you or I will never learn
Then again, plenty of people (most normal people, non-programmers) never learn those subjects, so if you're like "most" people then the answer would be "it would take forever" or "it will never happen".
Dive right it, make it a hobby, and have fun :)
Coming from an electronics background myself I can tell you that you should pick it up pretty quickly. And having an electronics background will give you a deeper understanding of the underlying hardware.
IMHO the root of information technology is electronics.
For example..
Think of objects as components.
The .NET framework is essentially drawers full of standard components.
For example you know what a 7400 (NAND gate) is capable of doing. You have a data sheet showing the pin outs and sample configurations. You don't typically care about the circuitry inside. Software objects are the same way. We have inputs and we have methods that do something to the inputs to produce predictable outputs. As developers we typically don't care how the object was written... just that it does what it says it will do.
You also know that you can build additional logic circuits by using two or more NAND gates. This of this as instantiation.
You also know that you can take a NAND gate and place it inside a circuit where you can modify the input signals coming in so the outputs have different behaviors. This is a crude example but you can think of this as inheritance.
I have also learned it helps to have a project to work on. It could be a hobbyist project or a work project. Start small, get something very basic working, and work up from there.
To answer your specific question on "what should I learn first".
1) Take your project you have in mind and break it into steps. For example... get a number from the user, add one to the number, display the result. Think of this as your design.
2) Learn basic C#. Write a simple console application that does something. Learn what an if statement is (this is all boolean logic so it should be somewhat familiar), learn about loops, learn about mathematical operations, learn about functions (subroutines). Play with simple file i/o (reading and writing text files). The basic C# can be thought of as your wiring and discrete components (resistors, caps, transistors, etc) to your chips (object).
3) Learn how to instantiate and use objects from the framework. You have already been doing this but now it's time to delve in further. For example... play with System.Console some more... try making the speaker beep. Also start looking for objects that you may want to use for database work.
4) Learn basic SQL. Lots of help and examples online. Pick a database you want to work with. I personally think MS Access is a great beginners database. I would not use it for multi-user or cross platform desktop applications... but it is a great single user database for Windows users... and it is a great way to learn the basics of SQL. There are other simple free databases available (Open Office has one for example) if you don't want to shell out $ for Access.
5) Expand your app to do something with a database.
Just do it! Don't sweat the details.
Well, it will take you forever. There is so much to learn about programming that 10 years are not enough.
http://norvig.com/21-days.html
Don't get me wrong, you will learn the basics quickly enough, but to become good at it will take much longer.
You should focus on an area and try to make some examples, if you choose web development, start with an hello world web page, then add some code to it. Learn about postbacks, viewstate and Sessions. Try to master ifs, cycles and functions, you really have a lot to cover, it's not easy to say "this is the best way to learn".
I guess in the end you will learn on a need to do basis.
The best thing about C# is that it is very catchy. Easy to pick up, and you'll also have fun doing it.
But .Net framework is a very big library full of wonderful things to discover, and yet again due to the nature of .Net you'll also have fun learning it. It's a coherent, object oriented, well documented library, and C# makes it so simple to work with it that you can simply discover your way through it while coding.
The vast majority of articles, books or resources about .Net and C# simply concentrate on explaining functionality and the framework and far less about how to avoid quirks, workarounds or exceptional cases, like it happens with other languages I don't want to name (*cough C++*) so in the end the experience of learning C# and .Net is very enjoyable from start to finish, and the things you can accomplish using .Net also makes it very rewarding.
You picked a good language to start with, in my opinion, and finally to answer your question, it will take you about:
2 to 3 months to learn the basics
1 to 2 years to become a versed developer
5 years or more to become a expert or, depending on your dedication, a "guru".
But then again, beating the numbers and breaking the limits lies inside human nature. Can you do it faster than this? ;-)
How long is a piece of string? I think this is subjective. I know programmers that have learned an extraordinary amount in a very short time based on the experience that they've exposed themselves to.
Basically, get your hands dirty and you're bound to learn more.
It really depends on what you mean by "learn". You could probably spend a week and get a couple of pages up on the web that had some minimal level of interactivity to save information entered by the user in some database, and then have some other pages for querying and displaying the information. You could then spend the next 10 years of your life learning all the intricacies of the .Net framework, SQL, and mastering using the IDE.
The period of which you are capable of learning really depends on your ability to grasp the logic behind programming while where to learn from depends on your learning style.
If you are a learn-by-a-book type of guy, just jump on Amazon.com and perform a quick search, pick up the book with the best reviews or wait for someone here to recommend a book (I'm not a programming by book guy)
If you prefer screencasts (video feeds demonstrating what to do) or tutorials, then go straight to the source: http://www.asp.net/learn/. There are tons of videos and tutorials explaining everything you need to get started.
Visual Web Developer 2008 Express should be all you need to get started. Basically, the express editions are Visual Studio chopped down to a precise set of functionality to accomplish one thing. They don't have some of the bells and whistles needed for large scale development, but everything you should need.
Can't tell how long it would take, it really depends on your existing knowlege. I managed to learn the C#/.NET 2.0 core basics in about 2 months.
My suggestion to you: Try to learn towards exams, they make sure your learning covers all important parts and also guide you through this new technology. See Microsoft Learning.
If you have any programming experience, you can probably learn the C# syntax in a few hours, and be comfortable with it within a week or so. However, you will not be writing complex structures unless you write a lot of code with it. It's really the same as learning any language: you can learn all the words and grammer fairly quickly, but it takes a while to be fluent.
EDIT
A book you may want to pick up for learning C# is C# in a Nutshell (3.0) which I found to be very useful, and has been recommended by several people here.
If you want to learn, REALLY want to learn, then time is not of consequence. Just move forward everyday. Let your passion for this stuff drive you forward. And one day you'll see that you are good at C#/.NET.
You'll pick up c# fairly quickly (the language syntax is not that complicated). It will take you a long time to really learn the .NET framework, but you'll pick up the heavily used parts of the framework fairly quickly, and you should start seeing patterns in the framework.
My advice to you: don't just learn from a book or website. They will teach you the language and framework, but they will not teach you how to program anything useful.
Writing little code snippets will teach you how to do a very specific tasks, but they do not teach you how to write applications. My suggestion is that you think of an app that might be fun to work on (and doable... e.g. don't think that you're going to write an operating system or crysis or something in a month or two). Personally, when I was learning, wrote my own full featured IRC app, complete with rich text, personal messaging, etc.
The answer in my view is related to whether you have a tangible problem to solve or if you just want to learn for example to be prepared for a possible new job. If you have a problem then you are in better shape. You can start by looking around and seeing how other people went about solving that problem. Languages in general you should be able to pick up fairly quickly (after all you hold an MS in EE, no small feat IMO).
What you need to be on the lookout for is good programming practices. You'll probably see yourself asking "why is this method so small", "why is this method empty and what the heck is this abstract word doing here". That will give you perspective beyond syntax towards good writing.
When I switched careers out of Finance, I took 9 months off to study C++ full-time out of a book by Ivor Horton. I had a lot of support from my best friend, who is a guru, and I had been programming as a hobby since high school (I was 36 at the time).
It's not just the syntax that's an issue. The idea of things like pointers, passing by reference, multi-tiered architectures, struct's vs classes, etc., these all take time to understand and learn to use. And you're adding to that the .Net framework, which is huge and constantly evolving, and SQL, which is a totally different skill set than C#. You also haven't mentioned various subsets of the framework that are becoming more widely used, like WPF, WCF, WF, etc.
You're an academic so you can definitely do it, but it's going to take serious effort for a long time, and you definitely will need some projects to work on and learn from. Good luck to you.
According to Malcolm Gladwell, it will take you 10,000 hours to get really good. So get cracking.
Simple answer: a lot longer than two months. Learning to program competently will take longer than that, no matter what. It took me years to learn to be a competent object-oriented programmer, and I'm good at this stuff.
More detailed answers: it doesn't really matter whether you learn C# or SQL first, as they're very different. I'd probably suggest SQL, as it's easier to learn and more independently useful.
You will have a hard time getting used to the on-the-job realities at home, much as if you were studying plumbing or quantitative finance.
You're going to have a hard time putting all the information together without one or more projects you try to do. You're going to need to have other people to tell you when you're being stupid, when you're being overclever and will pay for it later, and when you're actually getting it.
Try to find an open source project you find vaguely interesting. Study their code. Figure out why they do what they do. Look at the bug list, and try to find something as trivial as possible to fix. Work from there. Learning to contribute is going to teach you things that are useful in the work world, and it will give you something to point at. It will be far easier to get your first job if you have some experience to point to.
All "relativity" aside, not fast. Based on the fact that you said you never programmed before...to become a basic programmer, a few years.
And to become a good to outstanding (using design patterns and industry recognized standards that relate to common standards as defined by ISO/IEC 9126 Standard such as testability, maintainability, etc.) programmer, it takes years of experience and coding often.. you do not become "Sr." or an "Architect" overnight and the same thing is true for a mid-level developer who doesn't code slop.
It's always a process where you improve. So learning is relative. But to learn the basics, seems simple until you start to design classes and interfaces. And even Leads stumble on the basics..doing things wrong. Everyone does. There is so much to be aware of.
If you're just going to be adding features (using classes your Lead or Architect has stubbed out for the team) and not really adding new classes, etc. it's easier....but you should take care in coding using standards and you still have to know complex areas of OOP. But that's not really OOP. When you start to creating classes, interfaces and knowing about inheritance, heap, references, etc. yada yada...and REALLY understanding it takes time no matter how smart you are or think you may be.
So, for a new programmer. Not easy. Be prepared to code a lot. And if you are not, find a job where you are. It's all about coding as much possible so you can get better.
Read these books FIRST. Do not dive into any others out there because they are not geared toward teaching you the language in a way you can get up to speed fast:
http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Object-Oriented-Analysis-Design/dp/0596008678/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231280335&sr=8-4
http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-SQL-Brain-Learners/dp/0596526849/ref=pd_bbs_sr_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231280335&sr=8-7
http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-C-Brain-Friendly-Guides/dp/0596514824/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231280393&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/First-Design-Patterns-Elisabeth-Freeman/dp/0596007124/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231280393&sr=8-3
they will get you the fasted jump start into understanding, better than any books out there.
Also for these lame type of responses, ignore them:
"Then again, plenty of people (most normal people, non-programmers) never learn those subjects, so if you're like "most" people then the answer would be "it would take forever" or "it will never happen"."
Those come from developers (typically leads) who have some Ego trip that DON'T want you to learn. Everyone learns differently and at different paces and eventually you will become "fast". I get very tired of hearing Sr. developers say statements like this when their sh** also stinks many times no matter how good they are. Instead they should be helping the team to succeed and learn as long as their team is working hard to keep abreast and doing what they can on their own as well (not leachers).
Make sure you try to get a Jr. Level Developer position first...
2-3 months to learn the basics...no way. Unless you're gonna code spaghetti sure. Same goes for the 1-2 years. Spaghetti it is then..
Build on what you already know and have a look at lot of job adverts. E.g I have seen jobs asking for WinForms/WPF AND electronics for the writing of a UI to control a custom bit of hardware.
You may find the “robotics” .net toolkit interesting.
.Net is now too big for anyone to learn both WEB and Desktop so you have to decide the way you are going to go. Web has lots more jobs, but there are very few people with good desktop stills.
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My 11 year old son is very interested in programming. He has been working with Scratch
for a couple years but has now outgrown it. I recently helped him install Visual C# Express Edition and he is very excited to work with it, but we're having a hard time finding good resources for him online.
He learns best by looking at sample programs, dissecting them, altering them, etc. Searching around I wasn't able to find many good samples for him to download and try in C# Express Edition. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good set of sample programs for a kid learning C#, or any other resources you think might be good for him?
BTW I'm a programmer myself but I've been almost exclusively working with Linux for a long time, so when it comes to Microsoft I'm pretty lost!
I would recommend Coding4Fun. There are some very nice projects out there which would appeal to an 11 year old. I recall seeing some games, screensavers, and even a sample which shows how to make a WinForms app look like it is bleeding (awesome for Halloween, eh?)
Hmm... given that C# isn't really a "teaching language" (and that's not to say it's a bad choice), I suspect there aren't a lot of tutorials targeted at younger kinds. Have you considered doing some parallel learning and trying to pick up C# with your son? It might be a good bonding experience for both of you, and with your background in programming, you'll likely have a lot of insight to share, even if it's more language agnostic knowledge about things like algorithms, style, commenting, pitfalls to avoid, etc.
If your son has already been working with Scratch and is going to be starting on C# then I would say that he is ready for a regular starting C# tutorial. Teaching programming to kids in general has been discussed several times at SO a few times. Here is one of the better results (How and when do you teach a kid to code). The principal concepts of teaching a kid to program are the same regardless of the language.
Alice is based around story-telling. It's not programming specifically, but it teaching programming mechanisms. Instead of loop, it's more like "Repeat this" type construct. Worth watching the demo video though.
I just found when zapping the web the Kid's Corner from Microsoft, he could have a go on this link as well :-)
Code Project is a good resource, but many of the sample are more complicated than you'd want to start with.
For smaller sample apps, Microsoft released their 101 Samples for Visual Studio 2005
XNA is cool, but is somewhat complicated to get started with.
Coding4Fun is also good, but the amount of content isn't that huge.
For an absolute beginner I would suggest www.codecademy.com. It is very simply written and completely interactive from the very first page load. Very ideal for a 1st timer imho. It teaches in JavaScript not C# but they are pretty similar as far as syntax goes. He might already be too advanced for this though.
Any book written in or after 2008 that states it's C# for beginners on Amazon with positive reviews. Do not buy |BLANK| for dummies, no kid likes it! and keep a maximum price of $30 for $25 you can get a book that will be so great Microsoft might have to hire him, lol jk. i recommend a wrox book but any other book will do. has he coded any program yet, is he doing freeware, opensource or paid. some books are made especially for open source. it might be hard at first, but he will end up coding some really useful programs. Main thing, make him keep going! don't let him quit. In my opinion, it isn't worth quitting; once you got the hang of it coding is really fun.
I've started with C# by joining a Minecraft (link) classic server development team. These were all people around 16+, but they really helped me learning the language. Getting into a team with people around your age who are a bit more experienced helps a lot I think, and I'd definitely recommend it.
First of all, I would love than my daughter would be interest in programming when she come to that age, and for that, congratulations.
Microsoft has Codding 4 Fun which should be a nice start, and if he's interested in Video tutorials, check the ASP.NET Learn website, he will find a lot of tutorials and video tutorials in VB and C# together with all the source code.
After that, code Project is a nice place to look to more examples :)
Good programming!
Code Project comes to mind. Lots of samples, projects, etc. available to play with.
If games interested him (which is a fair bet) check out XNA, otherwise try to find some other interest, for example music, and then look for a framework/SDK that would let you create useful content quickly without having to do too much legwork.
You might be interested in checking out Popfly. It is a system similar to Scratch but if you want you can begin adding your own components or do some extra javascript or C#. The integration of the multiple technologies might be a little too advanced but then again it might be okay. Again this is very close to Scratch but it might be fun.
As mentioned previously definitely check out Coding4Fun.
Congratulations and good luck.